RE: 1.04.36 KLilly vs Fulkerson T7

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:12 am

This posting is a continuation of the AAR that is entitled "1.04.10 Fulkerson vs KLilly" so the earlier turns are posted in the tail end of it for this game. KLilly is Axis again and I'm Soviet again. We both decided that there's a few things we wanted to do differently and this should be a better game than the last one. I'm hoping. Kevin is off to a really good start and I've already decided to abandon Leningrad as undefendable and concentrate on Holding Him Out of Moscow ( HHOOM ).

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:29 am

ORIGINAL:  M60A3TTS
You have issues, but nothing that can't be managed.  Yes, you need to shift a portion of those troops northwest of Riga.  No need for a frantic withdrawal, just pull back behind that Emajogi River and use the terrain, positioning units in the swamps, woods, etc.  Run your line, basically east-west to the Valdai Hills, it doesn't have to be a big carpet.  Move that green army of the Moscow MD to positions where you can slow his advance east.  You cut his supply lines, so good work there.  Send a reserve army if you have one to back up that Moscow MD army.  And the terrain is very defendable.  He might try to cut sharply north and cut off a huge # of troops so be thinking about that.

I've already decided to rail out all the industry out of Leningrad ( done ) and just abandon Leningrad as basically undefendable.  The guys I would have used to guard Leningrad I could then use to guard Moscow.  That's the plan at least.

ORIGINAL:  M60A3TTS
In the center, transfer troops there from Southern and Southwest Fronts if you have to,  You're not under great pressure there and nothing of strategic value.  I'd try and double up on the eastern bank of the Dnepr near Kiev, use the Z-key to help keep the combat values consistent and put another line or two behind that.

Good idea.  I need to evacuate the industry out of D-town and Z-town and hopefully Stalino before I just do a major pull back down there.  I've lost Kiev already and he's doing a massive brute-force thing across the river that will eventually work and then he'll have his panzers on tank ground just ready to encircle and devour the remnants of my Southern and SouthWestern forces.  I'll get some of the recent reinforcements to rail themselves into this area to build some fall-back lines between him and Kharkov etc.

ORIGINAL:  M60A3TTS
Have you loaded up those front line armies particulary in the center with RR construction brigades to build forts faster?

Yes indeedy.  I'm posting 2 RR dudes with each Army HQ unit and each Corps HQ unit.  I'm loosing the Corps HQ units ( AI is disbanding them on me ) which sometimes makes the applicable Army HQ unit overburdened so I'm having to rail in some more HQ units from Stavka to take over some of the workload.  Several times now.  I guess that just means that the fresh reinforcements are finally slowly making their way into the front line units.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:01 am

I talked myself into moving all the industry stuff still in Leningrad since it was so cheap to do so.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:03 am

Here's what's in Moscow that needs to be railed out yet:

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:29 am

Here's the best I could do about pullling back in the south etc.

76mm · Post by **76mm** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:34 am

Larry, while I can't blame you for writing off Lgrad--it is only logical given how things usually play out in this game--I have to say that it feels very wrong that Sov players can be so blase about abandoning the city.

While I don't think Sov players should be forced to repeat all of the really dumb moves that the Sovs made in 1941, it seems like victory conditions should encourage them to seek to hold major cities as long as possible, even at some risk to their army--otherwise German players have some justification for saying that the Sovs can too easily avoid pockets and end up with huge manpower numbers come the blizzard.

Anyway, this is not a criticism of you at all, but a comment on how the victory conditions seem a bit off at the moment.

Pawlock · Post by **Pawlock** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:11 am

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's what's in Moscow that needs to be railed out yet:

As rail cap is at a premium to save yourself some with your illustration on Moscow, forget the Migs altogether they stop producing soon and do not upgrade,just rail 1 of each of U-VS(get billions of these crappy things),IL10, and PE-3's. The latter 2 do not start production for quite some time so only railing the 1 out they will be repaired and back up to original build limit by time they come online.

timmyab · Post by **timmyab** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:45 am

Well done for dodging the bullet in the South.I think a decisive break South by pz group 1 a few turns ago might have yielded spectacular results for AGS.I think KLilly has made a major mistake in driving his tanks into that culdesac North of Kiev.

cpt flam · Post by **cpt flam** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:40 pm

from memory Mig production stop in december
for IL10 and Pe3 I don't think they will upgrade till production date
i have made the move of 1 IL10 and keeping at 1 point

M60A3TTS · Post by **M60A3TTS** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:23 pm

South is looking pretty good, but next turn regardless look to pull back to the east side of the Tikich and Sinyukha rivers west of Kirovograd.  That will shorten your line some and free up more units, letting you firm up the wall around Kiev.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:09 pm

ORIGINAL: cpt flam
i have made the move of 1 IL10 and keeping at 1 point

That's how I stopped the production of U-2VS's. I moved 1 point from Moscow to a city nearby and got 94 turns of damage so there's not going to be a production stream of U-2V's for a long time to come. I can't imagine using biplanes for anything since they would just be death traps. I'm using them as bait for now.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:50 am

Here's the front lines in T8 before any Soviet moves. Hard pushing all over the map by Kevin.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:00 pm

Here's the OOB, losses, and production screens

Hermann · Post by **Hermann** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:08 pm

hear you there 76mm ive noticed a lot of Axis players take the Pwning of Leningrad for granted. Really wish the supply system more accurately reflects trace in swamp and forested hills. On another note there should be a trickleback modifier of some sort when the axis doesnt maintain a line. I've got a German player that literally stripped the entire front and concentrated at moscow and rostov in 2 groups. seems i should get more stragglers inbound and the supply for the germans drastically reduced.

Hermann · Post by **Hermann** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:11 pm

possibly a supply unit attached to each army with a limited capacity to support or even a railhead unit that an army attaches to - again with limits reducing capacity when overburdened.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:18 pm

I finally found enough Naval Rifle Brigades and / or forts to fully man the Finn "no-attack-line".

M60A3TTS · Post by **M60A3TTS** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:42 pm

The Western Front looks to need some beefing up. It looks as though he is close to breaking it in half. Also suggest you avoid sending more stuff towards Leningrad, you have that area under control for the most part.

I agree with timmyab that his panzers in Kiev are poorly positioned, but wouldn't expect Klilly to let them sit there indefinitely. He could try to break through between the Kharkov MD army and Southwest Front and form the southern pincer that would bag the Kharkov MD army and the southern half of Western Front.

Overall, looking pretty fair.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:51 pm

This is just about the best I could do for Soviet moves in the Northwest Front area

traemyn · Post by **traemyn** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:57 pm

Granted I've only played one GC as the Soviets, but the excess troops in the blue seem like they could get easily cutoff by a strong thrust directly towards Leningrad. The interesting thing though is that KLilly has a ton of infantry on that side as well so maybe he was going to try a 'left hook'? [:D]

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:00 pm

Here's a close-up of my moves in the Veli Luki area