IJA Command HQ upgraded as VM Divisions

[fcharton]

Hi,

I recently noticed that, in my game (scen 2), two Command HQ (Kwantung and General Defense) have non zero AV values. Looking further, it seems that both have VM Militia squad in their TOE. In fact, they have the same organisation as Vietnamese Militia Divisions.

This apparently happened as we upgraded the game from 1108c to 1108p4, a few weeks ago (but it took a while to be visible since, the HQ did not draw replacement squads all at once, and this is not the kind of change one is typically looking after...)

Although I am very happy to invite our Vietnamese friends in my general headquarters, this change seems to entail a number of side effects. Over the last weeks, the experience of the two HQ dropped 10 points, probably because of the replacement they received, and both HQ are now static, as VM divisions should be.

I have not checked whether they retain their HQ benefits, but I believe that having two major HQ turned into static militia divisions might cause more troubles at some later stages.

I am a bit worried about this: those two units are not exactly unimportant, and I don't think this is working as designed...

I can provide savefiles (before and after the upgrade). Help me please!

Francois

[viberpol]

IMHO that's a known problem, reported many times.
Check out here for example: tm.asp?m=2686165&mpage=1&key=Command%2Cupgrade�

According to Michael the HQ does not loses its command capabilities.
Bad news: when the wrong upgrade happened, there's no way you get back the proper TOE lines if not engaged in combat and destroyed.

[EDIT] or here in the main thread concerning the beta updates (just scroll down for HQ TOE upgrade bugs): tm.asp?m=2729580&mpage=6&key=TOE%2Cupgr ... d&#2759078

[fcharton]

Hi Viberpol

Interesting. You apparently have the same TOE as me, but your HQ has not become static. There is no way I can engage them in combat, since they can't move...

Any way this can be changed or corrected in game? I mean, an infantry regiment or division, getting the wrong TOE is a nuisance, but two (now static) Command HQ look like a lot of future trouble.

[EDIT] Just read the beta thread you pointed to... Apparently, this was supposed to have been solved a while ago
Fixed Building VM units corrupts TOE of GHQ and Kwantung HQ [MEM]
The problem here does not seem to be linked with VM building (mine had appeared months ago), but the upgrade definitely happened when we moved from 1108c to 1108p4 (I can see that in Tracker's LCU/Formation screen)

Francois

[viberpol]

Well, I don't want to scare you, but couple hundred turns later (today) my main HQs become static eventually. [:D]
See the printscreen.

I doubt it can be corrected in ongoing games, though Michael did his best to identify and get rid of most TOE upgrade problems...
One way could be removing "static" feature of some squads, but it would affect other games too.

This bug concerned two main HQs (Kwantung and General) and if you get static devices then there's no way you can move them...

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: fcharton
[EDIT] Just read the beta thread you pointed to... Apparently, this was supposed to have been solved a while ago
Fixed Building VM units corrupts TOE of GHQ and Kwantung HQ [MEM]
The problem here does not seem to be linked with VM building (mine had appeared months ago), but the upgrade definitely happened when we moved from 1108c to 1108p4 (I can see that in Tracker's LCU/Formation screen)
Francois

[EDIT] I see... [&:] so your opponent activated extra divisions in Indochina earlier?
My problem appeared around when Chinese units crossed the border and activated 4 small Vietnamese LCUs. The exact change doesn't happen when the VM is activated, but when you set your LCU on rest allowing the upgrade of TOE to happen (earlier versions of the game were too bugged as far as the working of HQs is concerned). HQs were not acting like HQs and didn't let other LCUs in range to upgrade it's TOE. That's a bit complicated but those fixes are interconnected... [:D] Seems like the same patch line that allowed your HQ working as they should, spoiled the HQ TOE upgrade as well... [;)]
Attach a save before and after. It'a always helpful if you got the bug nailed in just the right time.

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Marc has found the problem with the corrupting GHQ/Kwantung HQ TOE.
It is related to when the VM units get activated.
I'll update the EXE.

Can't restore the corruption, though.

Maybe one way to solve the problem would be to get rid of static characteristic of VM Militia/HMG squads... don't know, maybe they don't have to be static? [&:]
That was probably implemented to limit them in game, disallowing using somewhere else away from Vietnam but... then again, they do not present a big threat actually... and I agree it could be helpful to regain mobility of two main Japanese HQs. [;)]

[fcharton]

ORIGINAL: viberpol
Did your opponent activated extra divisions in Indochina?
My problem appeared when Chinese units crossed the border and activated 4 small Vietnamese LCUs.

He did, in late January 42. But there was no problem with the two Japanese HQ then (I just checked).
The upgrade happened in early May 42, on the very turn when we moved to p4.

Naturally, as a French JFB, I feel honoured and proud to see all those nice French guns in major Japanese HQ, and so long those two HQ still perform as HQ for replacement and upgrade purposes, I probably can live with them being static. It does make one a bit worried about version upgrades, though...

Francois

[vonTirpitz]

As stated by viperpol the problem is triggered by the VM activation. The visible HQ TOE doesn't reflect this in the last official release because the trigger to upgrade the TOE didn't happen under that version.

The TOE fixes in the beta cause the HQ TOE to upgrade as they are supposed to but the corrution caused by the VM activation will still be there unless the VM activation occurs after the bug was fixed (1108k4 I believe).

[fcharton]

Hi vonTirpitz,

Thanks a lot. Went back to the old turns, and had a closer look. Here is what happened:

26th of January 1942 : Chinese unit enters Vietnam, VM activation is triggered, no change in the TOE of GHQ
27th of January 1942 : 1st VM arrives in Hanoi, no change in the TOE of GHQ
28th of January 1942 : 2nd VM arrives in Haiphong, 1st VM takes replacements, GHQ (and Kwantung) TOE upgrade to VM static division

From then on, nothing happened, since neighter GHQ nor KHQ took replacements, until we moved to version p4. At this point, both HQ took replacements, and the problem became visible.

I can provide saves if anyone needs them, but since the problem seems to be understood and solved in new versions, and cannot be helped in past games...

Francois