What is the rational ? 230 vs. 2

[nukkxx5058]

Hi, I'm playing this North Africa scenario from the seller's package. See attached picture for details. I'm just [very] surprised that my 21th Panzer Division with a 230 strength is just blocked by a miserable 1x riffle unit. I can't move north despite the fact that my Pz division still has 40 AP and of course the presence of the ... 1x rifle dude in front of me as a major threat

Any interpretation / explanation ? Thx

[Josh]

"move north"? You mean, you can't attack that unit? Hmm, all I can think of is that Pz unit with 40 action points left, still has not enough AP's left to actually attack that town. I'd wait a turn and see what happens. Most often when you can't attack another unit, you just have forgotten to either declare war (that's not the case here) or that the unit can't move into a certain terrain. Say tracked into muddy swamps for example.

[british exil]

Maybe the lone rifle doesn't know that he's up against one of the strongest formations of the Afrika Corps. 40 Ap is not enough to force an attack, so why should the allied soldier retreat? His Enfield rifle is fully loaded and he is going to be damn** if he is not going to spend the last bullets knocking out the wehrmacht.

The AI I suppose is set to a minimum % retreat mode, so next turn you'll attack and knock him either out of his defenses or your Afrika Corps will claim another Tommie dead.


Mat

[Strategiusz]

How is it? If I have enough points to enter the hex, I can also do the attack? I never figured it out.

@nukkxx, try to separate tanks from this unit and attack with them.

[Strategiusz]

@nukkxx, try to separate tanks from this unit and attack with them.

double post, please delete this

[british exil]

That lone Allied soldier is sat in a town/village. Not really a place for your tanks. You could as Madlok pointed out create 2 units and move your panzers though the flat desert, where they are better suited and send a few Inf into the houses.

Either way you plan with 40 AP it is not enough to move into an occupied enemy hex.

Mat

[Strategiusz]

I mean attacking with tanks, because tank pays less AP for entering some type of hexes (especially roads). I suppose that the unit has a lot of infantry that needs 30 AP just to enter +10 for zoc or enemy zone, +10 AP for at least 1 round fighting (I'm not sure).

[Josh]

Oh hang on, they're Brits, they won't surrender without proper procedures (that is negotiating officer must be colonel or higher) *or* without having their cup of tea first. Rules are rules you know, what would the world come to if the right procedures were cruelly neglected? First you fire some shots, then you wave a white flag, then a high ranking officer comes asking if by any chance there are some casualties, then both parties have some tea and negotiate a honorable surrender.
It's in the Rulevars of ATG. Everyone knows that.
 
[;)]

[nukkxx5058]

So I really have to attack first before moving. My panzer division is blocked by a single rifle. In fact the problem comes from the fact that units remains units despite the fact that they are reduced to a single rifle. To be more realistic, IMO, these tiny units should be either destroyed [surrender] during resolution phase or become "permeable" ie. not able to block the way to a much stronger unit. I should be able to stack my panzer division over this poor rifle and then continue my trip to the north without bothering with it nor spending APs and time.

[Grymme]

In my opinion it is realistic. Your panzerdivision has bad readiness and has already travelled/fought its way for a while. It comes upon a lightly held town and does not have the time to go into the town combatready.

There is no automatic overrun in ATG but the fact that this is a tiny tiny unit will be reflected in combat by the fact that the panzerdivision will most likely destroy the rifle in one single round of combat thus preserving most of the AP for the panzerdivision to continue fighting and or moving. Had been a large unit the combat would last many combat rounds leaving the panzer unit depleted of AP and unable to continue its advance.

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: Grymme

In my opinion it is realistic. Your panzerdivision has bad readiness and has already travelled/fought its way for a while. It comes upon a lightly held town and does not have the time to go into the town combatready.

There is no automatic overrun in ATG but the fact that this is a tiny tiny unit will be reflected in combat by the fact that the panzerdivision will most likely destroy the rifle in one single round of combat thus preserving most of the AP for the panzerdivision to continue fighting and or moving. Had been a large unit the combat would last many combat rounds leaving the panzer unit depleted of AP and unable to continue its advance.

Ok I get your point. Combat rounds is the key. Thanks.

[british exil]

Was just thinking of the allied advance through Germany in 1945. 2 youths armed with a few panzerschrek could have halted an armoured advance for a while or a well concealed sniper an Inf advance, of course never a week as in the ATG turns.

Or the 300 Spartans who battled against the Persian Army.

Sometimes a few can be just a few too many!

Mat

[nukkxx5058]

In fact, after playing several games [and particularly the North Africa scenario] I am very disappointed with the unrealistic OOBs. I have a 275 strong Panzer division [it's ww2] and when I look at the details I see 5 panzers , 2 bazooka and 15 rifle-dudes. Not credible at all. I'm considering returning to War in the East instead of spending time learning ATG. I'm not a WW2 fanatic but a minimum of realism is necessary for a total immersion. Am I wrong ?

[Grymme]

Yes.

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: Grymme

Yes.

"Yes' what ? I'm wrong ? or OOB are unrealistic ? At least a short explanation would be useful ...

[Keunert]

Yes

[british exil]

Nuxx, it depends on what you expect from a game.
ATG as AT can be a game where YOU decide how you want to buildyour armies. Of course there are scenario's that are a little more historical but after a few turns these units have changed, due to losses.

True GGWITE is a lot more deeper and complex, there are a lot of ATG here that play both. I think that ATG is a fun game, you can play a few turns in an evening. You still worry about reinforcements and logistics. And playing against a human you mostly don't come across monster stacks.
Pbem let's you decide how you both can play. Houserules can be made.

The game is worth the time and effort. Just give it a try. Try a game writing an AAR.

Of course you are the person who decides where you derive the most fun.

Mat

[nukkxx5058]

Ok ... thanks for the very intelligent and useful replies. So it seems clear now that this game is a joke and that jokers love it. Makes sense...

An old DOS command:

**************
delete *.*
**************

EDIT >>> PS: Sorry british exil. My answer was obviously not for you but for Grymme and Keunert. Thanks for your input mat.

[Keunert]

you own a great game with strenghts lying in it's flexibility. this comes at the cost of having some abstraction. i would guess this one and War in the east could complement each other. of course if a non historical oob is a game breaker to you than AT:G is probably not your cup of tea. but if you enjoy doing your own oob's, doing scenario's this game is a gem.

i get the most fun out of pbem, adjusting my gameplay after every defeat and victory. i think i will shelf the game once i beatBarthheart. and i believe that won't happen in this decade.

[Keunert]

you own a great game with strenghts lying in it's flexibility. this comes at the cost of having some abstraction. i would guess this one and War in the east could complement each other. of course if a non historical oob is a game breaker to you than AT:G is probably not your cup of tea. but if you enjoy doing your own oob's, doing scenario's this game is a gem.

i get the most fun out of pbem, adjusting my gameplay after every defeat and victory. i think i will shelf the game once i beatBarthheart. and i believe that won't happen in this decade.