Are Divisional HQs Possible?

[Dereck]

Currently a unit, such as the US 1st Marine Division is defined as a division.

INF 1st Marine Division MGEN

The division can then be "split" into 3 regiments such as below.

INF 1st Marine Rgt MGEN
INF 5th Marine Rgt COL
INF 7th Marine Rgt COL

Is it possible to define the division as follows where there is a divisional HQ
with the division commander as leader and the three regiments assigned to the
division HQ?

HQ 1st Marine Division MGEN
INF - 1st Marine Rgt COL
INF - 5th Marine Rgt COL
INF - 7th Marine Rgt COL

[Reg]

A better description might be as follows:

INF 1st Marine Division MGEN

The division can then be "split" into 3 regiments such as below.

INF 1st Marine Division/A (initially renamed as: 1st Marine Rgt) MGEN
INF 1st Marine Division/B (initially renamed as: 5th Marine Rgt) COL
INF 1st Marine Division/C (initially renamed as: 7th Marine Rgt) COL

[Dereck]

Thanks for you reply but that does not answer my question at all.

The 1st Marine Division is ALREADY split in the editor into the regiments.

What I want to know is whether it is possible to create an HQ unit which would be called "1st Marine Division" and then the three regiments and assign them to the headquarters so there can be a headquarters unit.

[michaelm75au]

You could set up that breakdown in the Editor, but it will not happen if you use the in-game breakdown button on the parent.
Not even sure what would be left to put in the "HQ 1st Marine Division" portion.

[Reg]

My point was that broken down divisions are not really independent units (of differing size/type) but fragments of the parent even though they can be renamed in the editor to whatever you want at the start of a game.

To do what you envisage in game is not supported by the current engine and I'm sure MichaelM has already stated as such.

A worthy request though... [:)]

Edit: Too slow.. I should have known MichaelM would be around [:D]

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: dereck

Currently a unit, such as the US 1st Marine Division is defined as a division.

INF 1st Marine Division MGEN

The division can then be "split" into 3 regiments such as below.

INF 1st Marine Rgt MGEN
INF 5th Marine Rgt COL
INF 7th Marine Rgt COL

Is it possible to define the division as follows where there is a divisional HQ
with the division commander as leader and the three regiments assigned to the
division HQ?

HQ 1st Marine Division MGEN
INF - 1st Marine Rgt COL
INF - 5th Marine Rgt COL
INF - 7th Marine Rgt COL

You can do this in one of two ways:

1. In the editor, create a "HQ" unit (defined as a Corps HQ). This was done in game for the New Zealand Division. Attach the three regiments to the HQ. Give each of the three regiments enough support to match 70% of its TOE squads + devices. Assign the rest of the support to the HQ. This division can never be combined. It will always fight as separate regiments.

2. In the editor, create 4 "Inf" regimental-sized units. Make sure the one with the lowest "location" number is the one you label as "HQs", commanded by the Major General. If the division combines, the game engine selects the leader assigned to the lowest-numbered "location" to command the LCU. Here you could put all of the artillery and engineers and a slice of the AA into the "HQ" unit, along with an appropriate amount of support. However, as Michaelm said, once the division combines, it can only be split again into three regiments.

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

You can do this in one of two ways:

1. In the editor, create a "HQ" unit (defined as a Corps HQ). This was done in game for the New Zealand Division. Attach the three regiments to the HQ. Give each of the three regiments enough support to match 70% of its TOE squads + devices. Assign the rest of the support to the HQ. This division can never be combined. It will always fight as separate regiments.

2. In the editor, create 4 "Inf" regimental-sized units. Make sure the one with the lowest "location" number is the one you label as "HQs", commanded by the Major General. If the division combines, the game engine selects the leader assigned to the lowest-numbered "location" to command the LCU. Here you could put all of the artillery and engineers and a slice of the AA into the "HQ" unit, along with an appropriate amount of support. However, as Michaelm said, once the division combines, it can only be split again into three regiments.

I'd be going with option #1 (I've already broke down as many divisions as I could find regiments for in the editor anyways).

Here is a list of tasks I can think of. If anybody thinks I've missed something let me know:

• Create regimental level TOEs for armor, cavalry and infantry units corresponding to their divisional level TOEs with armor and infantry TOEs containing 1/3 of the devices and 1/3 of 70% of the divisional support; cavalry TOEs would contain 1/4 of the devices and 1/4 of the 70% of the divisional support (since the 1st Cavalry Division actually had 4 regiments).
• Create Divisional HQ TOEs which would contain 30% of the divisional level support. Would divisional HQs have an infantry squad or two for protection?
• Modify all MGEN and above to be HQ commanders; not sure what to do with BGEN - some would be HQ commanders but some could actually be junior BGENs who could still be eligible only for regimental command due to seniority.
• Determine regiments for armored units. I'm going to have to fudge on this since when looking for unit OOBs I couldn't find where armored divisions had armored regiments but only multiple armored battalions. Due to slot limitations I may end up creating armored regiments instead.
• Decide whether regiments should be restricted to their division HQ or not. Not sure if I want to be able to allow a division's regiment(s) to be directly assigned to a Corps HQ (if the division itself is not under said Corps HQ command) or not.

By the way, right now I'm only thinking of doing this for US and USMC divisions.

Thanks

[Andy Mac]

I assume you will set it up so the broken down Divs can be recombined into a parent Div level unit or that this is a small map scenario

if you force the US and USMC to operate at a Regt level when everyone else is at Div level in a full campaign mod the game will be unplayable.

The scale of the game

is Bde/Regt for 1st 6 months with a few Divs floating around
DIV thereafter

The side without full Divs cannot win a Land Battle (or an invasion)

[Blackhorse]

Create Divisional HQ TOEs which would contain 30% of the divisional level support. Would divisional HQs have an infantry squad or two for protection?

I believe that HQ LCU do not 'fire' during combat; if that is true, any squads or devices added to the HQ would just be additional targets.

Determine regiments for armored units. I'm going to have to fudge on this since when looking for unit OOBs I couldn't find where armored divisions had armored regiments but only multiple armored battalions. Due to slot limitations I may end up creating armored regiments instead.

All the US Armored divisions that appear in AE abolished the armored regiments, in favor of flexible "Combat Commands" ("CC"): CCA CCB and, starting in 1943, CCR ("Combat Command Reserve"). Each division had three oversize tank battalions (53 medium and 17 light tanks) and three armored infantry regiments, along with the usual arty, recon and engineer assets. The easiest thing to do in game is to divide the armor division into three equal Combat Commands.

But, as Andy Mac noted, divisions should be combined before being committed to combat, otherwise you end up penalizing the allied player.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

Create Divisional HQ TOEs which would contain 30% of the divisional level support. Would divisional HQs have an infantry squad or two for protection?

I believe that HQ LCU do not 'fire' during combat; if that is true, any squads or devices added to the HQ would just be additional targets.

Determine regiments for armored units. I'm going to have to fudge on this since when looking for unit OOBs I couldn't find where armored divisions had armored regiments but only multiple armored battalions. Due to slot limitations I may end up creating armored regiments instead.

All the US Armored divisions that appear in AE abolished the armored regiments, in favor of flexible "Combat Commands" ("CC"): CCA CCB and, starting in 1943, CCR ("Combat Command Reserve"). Each division had three oversize tank battalions (53 medium and 17 light tanks) and three armored infantry regiments, along with the usual arty, recon and engineer assets. The easiest thing to do in game is to divide the armor division into three equal Combat Commands.

But, as Andy Mac noted, divisions should be combined before being committed to combat, otherwise you end up penalizing the allied player.

In ETO games done on regimenta/brigade scale, it is common to have CCA, CCB and CCR - but they are not equal. CCR is weaker.

[derhexer]

Currently a unit, such as the US 1st Marine Division is defined as a division.

INF 1st Marine Division MGEN

The division can then be "split" into 3 regiments such as below.

INF 1st Marine Rgt MGEN
INF 5th Marine Rgt COL
INF 7th Marine Rgt COL

Is it possible to define the division as follows where there is a divisional HQ
with the division commander as leader and the three regiments assigned to the
division HQ?

HQ 1st Marine Division MGEN
INF - 1st Marine Rgt COL
INF - 5th Marine Rgt COL
INF - 7th Marine Rgt COL

I'm sure this could be done, but what value does it add to the game?[&:]