What German Heavy Bomber Program...

[Footslogger]

I seem to remember that there was this one guy who was in charge of the German heavy bomber program; that was killed in a train accident taking the program with him?? Who was it?

[traemyn]

Was is Walter Wever?

[WingedIncubus]

Nitpick: He did not die in a train accident, but in an flying accident.

[Footslogger]

had the Germans had lets say...3 squadrons of the JU 89.. would it of changed the out come of the war?

[cherryfunk]

No.
 

[Klydon]

The Germans could have had all the heavy bombers at the start of the war they wanted (well, within reason). One of the huge deciding factors in the Battle of Britain was the short range of the German fighters who simply could not remain over England for very long at all.

[Footslogger]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

The Germans could have had all the heavy bombers at the start of the war they wanted (well, within reason). One of the huge deciding factors in the Battle of Britain was the short range of the German fighters who simply could not remain over England for very long at all.

That is correct. Wasn't the FW190 available at the time? And had it of taken the place of the ME 109, what do you think would of happened?

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

ORIGINAL: Klydon

The Germans could have had all the heavy bombers at the start of the war they wanted (well, within reason). One of the huge deciding factors in the Battle of Britain was the short range of the German fighters who simply could not remain over England for very long at all.

That is correct. Wasn't the FW190 available at the time? And had it of taken the place of the ME 109, what do you think would of happened?

Hmmm, the Fw190 became operational around summer 1941. I don't think it could have been earlier but...

IF they would only have had simple drop tanks for the Me109 things would have been different.

[tigercub]

well they did have drop tanks but they had problems with the release of the tanks and was not realy fixed until after Battle of Britain ...me109E7 was the first to have a good drop tank.

[Klydon]

The FW190 was undergoing testing during this time. (First prototype flew in the fall of 1939). The aircraft was still being tested and a lot of kinks worked out (especially with the engines and also the overheat issues). Pre-production was not ordered until late 1940; after the Battle of Britain.

Had the 190 been available earlier, it had approximately 20% more range than the 109 (500 miles or so vs almost 400 for the 109), so that would have helped, but I don't know if it would have been decisive. It was absolutely better than anything the British had at the time (and would be when it did come into service in late 1941 in the West). I think a 109 with drop tanks had around 500 miles or so

[Footslogger]

Having learned all of this, what would have been the ideal make up of the Luftwaffe then?

OT: I also heard that the Panther tank was designed in 1933??

[tigercub]

lol the panther was made after they found about sloped armor,they starting thinking about it in 42 , first fought in 1943...
 
The idear of a long range fighter was to be the Me110 but it never was realy was a fighter (goering wanted to be)but was a great attack plane...but never could handle single engine fighters...
 
 

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Having learned all of this, what would have been the ideal make up of the Luftwaffe then?

OT: I also heard that the Panther tank was designed in 1933??

Tough one to call except in dream land.

The LW was a Tactical Airforce and was not suited to Strategic bombing (hence predominantly short ranged aircraft).

It wasn't suited for the Battle of Britain - the 109 was too short legged, the bombers not that sturdy (exept the Ju88) and they didn't have great defensive power. All in all not ideal for fighting BoB.

In an ideal world they'd need a B29 and P51 equivalent along with a Shturmovik for GS missions.

[Klydon]

Well, part of it is how you define "ideal". The brain trust behind the Luftwaffe never envisioned a Battle of Britain scenario. They were more concerned with defense of the homeland and at best, continental situations. Looked at through that prisim, the Luftwaffe was more than adequate to that task with one glaring exception and that was the expectation that the Me110 would be able to escort bombers and be effective against enemy fighter opposition.

Don't get me wrong; there were plenty of flawed views within the Luftwaffe (Udent's strong desire to turn anything into a dive bomber for instance led to needless complications for the twin engine bombers that degraded their performance for little gain is but one example). The other issue is the Germans had limited resources to reconstitue the Luftwaffe. They could build more medium bombers (which were far more flexible in mission capability) compared to large bombers (good at strategic warefare, but not very good in the tactical realm).

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: tigercub

well they did have drop tanks but they had problems with the release of the tanks and was not realy fixed until after Battle of Britain ...me109E7 was the first to have a good drop tank.

Yes, well, they didn't have it for the battle, did they?

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: tigercub

The idear of a long range fighter was to be the Me110 but it never was realy was a fighter (goering wanted to be)but was a great attack plane...but never could handle single engine fighters...

They could in Russia, Poland, France, etc...
But against Spits or other top class fighters it couldn't compete.

[tigercub]

ORIGINAL: glvaca

ORIGINAL: tigercub

well they did have drop tanks but they had problems with the release of the tanks and was not realy fixed until after Battle of Britain ...me109E7 was the first to have a good drop tank.

Yes, well, they didn't have it for the battle, did they?

no

The other word i needed to add was MODERN single engine fighters.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: glvaca

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

ORIGINAL: Klydon

The Germans could have had all the heavy bombers at the start of the war they wanted (well, within reason). One of the huge deciding factors in the Battle of Britain was the short range of the German fighters who simply could not remain over England for very long at all.

That is correct. Wasn't the FW190 available at the time? And had it of taken the place of the ME 109, what do you think would of happened?

Hmmm, the Fw190 became operational around summer 1941. I don't think it could have been earlier but...

IF they would only have had simple drop tanks for the Me109 things would have been different.

Warspite1

May have been different. I think too little is made of the Luftwaffe's faulty tactics. The Me-109 fighters were badly utilised because it was wrongly felt that they were best employed in staying close to the bombers - thus sacrificing their speed. Just having more time over England would not have changed that; besides, all fighters had limited ammunition, and although I have no definitive data to back it up, I would be very surprised if fighters - British or German - landed without having expended their full load once battle was joined.

The Luftwaffe had the best fighter in the world in 1940 (the Spitfire I was in its early stages) and they blew it.

[Tarhunnas]

Have you read Macksey's "Invasion"? Interesting read of an alternative history where the Germans win the BoB and invade - or rather, win by invading. A great read!

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Have you read Macksey's "Invasion"? Interesting read of an alternative history where the Germans win the BoB and invade - or rather, win by invading. A great read!

Interesting, on to amazon [;)]