Bullwinkle, where art thou?

[Canoerebel]

Have any of you gents noticed that Bullwinkle has become rather scarce around these parts? I did see him on the forums last week some time, but he's not nearly as ubiquitous as he used to be. The guy goes and gets married and then forgets about the most important commitments in life (the Forum)? I don't think we should let him get away with this. As punishment, I suggest that he read GreyJoy's AAR paying especial attention to the "hairless wonder" and "master of the bushes" comments.

[Alfred]

He is still reading the forum. Just not that interested in participating in the low quality of "debate" which is found too commonly on the forum. In particular there is too much of a superiority attitiude exhibited by PBEM players against those who avowedly play against the AI.

Alfred

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

He is still reading the forum. Just not that interested in participating in the low quality of "debate" which is found too commonly on the forum. In particular there is too much of a superiority attitiude exhibited by PBEM players against those who avowedly play against the AI.

Alfred

All hail the one known as Andy Mac.

[Canoerebel]

[&:]

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

[&:]

The game has always been split even back in the WITP days of PBEM players vs AI players.

In WITP I never played in PBEM and I seen enough hostility from some players (not a clue why, its not like there is a tournament rating)

However, I do believe PBEM players get frustrated (as I do) when someone that only played the AI tries to give out strategy, but failed to try PBEM style of play.
This is mainly why I haven't done an AAR, only did one and it was constant annoyance from AI players trying to "help".

[jeffk3510]

I would agree with this.

[Schanilec]

I don't have internet at home. So I would humbly disagree. Though I don't hand out strategy advise, just mechanics of the game when I feel able.

[Canoerebel]

To be honest, this sounds like much ado about nothing.  If your skivvies are in a wad, then unwad them.  If you have a mad place, then scratch it and get glad.  My experience shows this to be a large, vibrant, good natured community.  There are occasional exceptions and outbursts, but those are exceptions.

P.S.  The aforementioned opinion is not directed at Bullwinkle, but rather at the notion that some folks get irritated by various things.  I just want Bullwinkle back and active so that we can harrass him about:  (a) being a Yankee and (b) getting married when he could have sat around into perpetuity drinking adult beverages, playing the game, and scratching his "naturally hairy" belly.

[Schanilec]

Agreed.

[Schanilec]

All right Bullwinkle come on out or the squirrel gets it.[;)]

[dazoline II]

If its any consolation the attitude about IA players has migrated to the WitE forum.
While not as rabid as it was in it's heyday here, its another fourm where I now just lurk rather than post.

While it maybe a matter of thickening your skin to others comments it eventually reaches the point that you know your unwelcome on certain forums so why bother to post.

[LST Express]

This is a more interesting place with guys like Bullwinkle in it imo.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

...However, I do believe PBEM players get frustrated (as I do) when someone that only played the AI tries to give out strategy, but failed to try PBEM style of play.
This is mainly why I haven't done an AAR, only did one and it was constant annoyance from AI players trying to "help".

There are strong players who for several reasons are limited to only playing the AI.

There are weak players who play PBEM. If matched against a strong PBEM player, often (but not always) the weak player just abandons the game immediately upon suffering a setback. If both PBEM players are weak they will usually continue and enjoy their match but may learn little in the process.

Then there are the players who perhaps due to nerves or some other factor, find it difficult to maintain a high standard in their play but can objectively analyse very well and provide quality commentary. On the other hand there are strong players who are quite incapable of transferring their knowledge to others.

I would put it to you that if you received such poor advice from AI only players, the quality of advice from those same sources would not improve markedly were they to become PBEM players.

I have certainly seen enough poor quality advice from PBEM players to not share your view that AI player advice = poor, PBEM player advice = good.

To give an example of the pointless generalisation you have made, consider Bullwinkle's advice in GreyJoy's AAR to use the Solomons to confront rader. Everyone in that AAR, including PBEM players who argued otherwise, now think that theatre of operations has been an Allied success. Remarkable that an AI player like Bullwinkle could have come up with the advice. I guess he must have just fluked it.

Alfred

[Canoerebel]

Deleted as I shouldn't be discussing GreyJoy's AAR out here "in the open."

[GreyJoy]

*delated cause CR was faster than me [:D]*

[jeffk3510]

What is delated...?

[:'(]

[Schanilec]

Becoming early?

[SuluSea]

Sorry to hear of this regarding Bullwinkle, I enjoyed his posts and he always seemed ready to lend  advice to someone having issues or a newbie.
 
 I hope time heals wounds and he'll be back soon and congratulations on the wedding , shipmate!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Sorry to hear of this regarding Bullwinkle, I enjoyed his posts and he always seemed ready to lend  advice to someone having issues or a newbie.

I hope time heals wounds and he'll be back soon and congratulations on the wedding , shipmate!

Well, now that I've been outed by my good, upside-down friend, Alfred, how can I refuse to ack a wedding wish? [:)]

I've never had a thread about lil' ole me. Sniff. [:'(]

What Alfred relates is largely correct. I don't believe I've posted since an unpleasant interchange over HR theory in which I was stiff-armed on the "you only play the AI" plank. I've read a good bit--less than I used to--but I've played more in the time saved. (Also gotten into more resource-demanding games since I've gotten the Super-PC named Gus in the house. "Fallout: New Vegas" fully-modded is a lot of fun with all the bells on.) I've also had some long, interesting interchanges with Alfred. Any here who don't carefully consider his advice would be unwise. I've yet to find a topic where his learning is not both deeper and wider than my own, including the administration of Millard Fillmore!! (I couldn't even name the CURRENT Aussie PM until helped by him.)

If I may wax philosophical for a moment, I see the forum changing, and, if I may say so, balkanizing as the game enters its mid-life. The second (third?) large wave of newbies is meeting advice fatigue, and, if I may further suggest, failing in large part to read the manual or resources available here before asking for help. Players are increasingly splitting into their camps, not only PBEM/AI, but the various Babes groups, the heavy modders, Threadsters, the exclusive AAR writers and/or readers, the beta testers, and so on. I've seen this happen in other forums over time; it's natural. But a lot of the early, free-wheeling topicitis is over, and a lot of that was what I loved. We've beateen the big toipics to death: ASW, CAP, CD gunnery, supply movement, flak, stacking. This is not to say that these oldie goldies aren't still discussed, but unfortunately often when they are the fangs come out. The forum is a lot meaner than it used to be. My personal green-button list is nearing a dozen. A lot of old-timers have gone or gone quiet, and others have, as I said, balkanized into lodges.

One thing which I think could help (but I don't have a solution for) is if more, or almost any, games could get to 1944. I've been playing late-war in my Scen 2 game for several months, and am in 1/45 as Allies. I've tried the Downfall scenario, and it's nice, but very different than a late game you've engineered and enter with whatever forces you've managed to maintain, where-is, as-is. It's really a different game than the first two years, massively "picky and clicky" as the housekeeping is overwhelminmg, but it's also a lot of fun for an Allied player to finally have everything he needs to attack on many fronts at once. I have four or five major sieges going, and am hopping across over a dozen islands every week. I have B-29s at the two bases on Sakhalin Island and am experimenting with large-scale strat bombing for the first time. To that though I also early-activated the kami code, and multi-engine kamis by the, literally, thousands have been whacking at everything that moves for a year. The carnage has been brutal. I wish some mainline AARs could get to this era. Reading, and re-reading, playing and re-playing, the same old first-year moves is another reason I pulled back. I know the AI scripts aren't written, but I wish some good PBEM players--or a lot of them [;)]--would start Nik's May 1942 scenario on 2-day turns. I'd read that one.

So, anyway, I'm alive. Happily married. Still playing. Still reading, most days, at least for a few minutes. I'm touched that folks miss me; I never thought I had that much to offer outside of some submarine knowledge and general "been there" on the USN, which is not uncommon around these parts. I would urge the regulars who value this forum's health, however, to examine their participation, choose battles carefully, tone down the venom, gently guide newbies while encouraging self-study, and get some games to the later phases when the fur really flies.

Oh, Rocky sez "hi". Whatsamatta U. plays Bemidji State Normal School for Girls on Saturday. Bring your raccoon coat and ukulele. [8D]

[Cribtop]

Glad you're still around Bull. I played AI only for years and now am PBEMing, but enjoyed and learned from both experiences.

I agree about getting to the late war. I wish there was a May '42 start scenario and perhaps a late '43 or early '44 start as well.