TF fuel consumption issue/bug (no Smeulders!)

[Erkki]

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OK. I just dumbed some 15k fuel to Rabaul. Present are 2 combat TFs, 4-ship PB ASWTF and an xAK TF. All TFs have home port at Rabaul, they dont move, and all have "do not refuel".

However every turn the 2 combat TFs lose some fuel so I have to refuel them. This did not happen before I brought that fuel to Rabaul - they had been sitting at Rabaul for a month or so. The ASW TF and the xAK TF are not losing fuel. Any ideas? Of the 15k I moved there I now have only 8500 left as I lose 1500 daily.


The same thing is happening at Truk. Present are a similar ASW TF, an xAK TF, a 2-ship light cruiser TF and a bigger combat TF. Again, all have home port Truk, no patrol zones, and one of the TFs had(until this turn) refuel allowed. I have for weeks now lost 300 fuel a day because one of the TFs keeps losing fuel. For 2 turns, the 2-ship SCTF has also lost fuel. I made the bigger one "do not refuel" this turn also and behold!!! - all DDs had lost about 20 fuel and the bigger ships more.

Its like if they didnt know they were in a base hex or something. They dont use as much fuel as they would when cruising but they still do burn some and with lots of ships they'll burn a lot daily and its extremely annoying and in the long run burns a lot of fuel. This does NOT happen at other bases where I have multiple TFs and know the fuel cant be moving in or out by land, for example Bedeloab, Saipan, Port Moresby, Tulagi, Makassar, Tarakan, some PI bases and Paramushiro at least. Those I checked.

Any ideas? I disbanded and reformed some TFs today in hopes of stopping it. However some of them have good non-ship captain leaders and those I wouldnt want to reform yet because I need the PPs.

[Erkki]

OK, another turn and its still happening. Even with the newly created TFs... And today Rabaul's TFs both lost fuel and the base itself lost another 800 fuel into thin air despite of none of the TFs refueling!!

[Cavalry Corp]

If they are not disbanded I think all shps use fuel...

Not sure how the do not refuell option affects this.

[Sardaukar]

I think that if TF is not Docked, it uses fuel. But not entirely sure.

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: cavalry

If they are not disbanded I think all shps use fuel...

Not sure how the do not refuell option affects this.

Not true. As I said I have multiple non-docked TFs of multiple types from Air Combat to ASW and Mine Laying at multiple bases around the map and they most definitely dont use fuel. Good example is an ASW TF at Saipan which is allowed to refuel but Tracker shows me that Saipan hasnt lost a single unit of fuel during the entire campaign and the ASW-boat is still 100% endurance.

Those glitch-TFs of mine use fuel at about 50% rate of normal cruising speed I think as ships lose 3 to 4 endurance daily.

For this turn I simply disbanded some TFs and those with assigned commanders I ordered to move to a base without fuel...

Any ideas? Michaelm?


EDIT: Sardaukar, most interestingly 2 of the 4 TFs in question were docked...

and EDIT2: looking at Tracker theres actually a 5th TF that does it too, that is, half the ships in the other xAK TF(docked as well). But just these 2 bases, Rabaul and Truk.

[Sardaukar]

Sounds pretty much as a glitch/bug then.

[Erkki]

Michaelm, should I email you the save file, perhaps multiples so you can track it better? The game version is 1.0.6.1108p4 - ie. a beta from summer.

[Erkki]

OK, some progress. I took a look at one of the ships that do this, and interestingly Tracker reports its sailing at max speed. In reality, this ship is in a TF that is DOCKED at Truk and hasnt moved for soon 30 days(!!!), home port is Truk, refuel allowed(and last turn, refueling not allowed and was disbanded). Its now disbanded as I want to see if these ships keep burning fuel even at anchor... Looking at what happens at Rabaul(all TFs, even those that lose fuel, set to no refuel and port still lost 800 fuel in one turn) they probably will.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Michaelm, should I email you the save file, perhaps multiples so you can track it better? The game version is 1.0.6.1108p4 - ie. a beta from summer.

You can attach it here in your post, Tech forum allows bigger files to be attached, just zip it (or rename to .zip).

[Erkki]

Heres the latest save, after me hitting end turn. I presume you can open it despite of the password... I can send you more saves if needed or email Tracker databases.

[GreyJoy]

I agree. I have the same problem with my BB TFs...even when at Port they always pop up the next turn with some fuel consumpted...and with more Op points spent to auto refuel...i'm always forced to disband everything if i wanna give orderes to a TF having all the OP at my disposal...it's a pita[:(]

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I agree. I have the same problem with my BB TFs...even when at Port they always pop up the next turn with some fuel consumpted...and with more Op points spent to auto refuel...i'm always forced to disband everything if i wanna give orderes to a TF having all the OP at my disposal...it's a pita[:(]

Not as PITA as its burning fuel of major front hubs faster than I can haul it. [:@] At least the system/flt damage doesnt increase but repairs as if the TF was stationary(well, it is, lol).

[Erkki]

Another turn and keeps happening. Truk and Rabaul both have pretty large (300+) minefields with the tenders.. Do tenders consume fuel from the port? That would explain half of the issue. This turn the SCTFs moved away from Rabaul consumed only the endurance needed to move the 3 hex, no extra. A TF left at Rabaul consumed fuel from its PBs... But PBs dont tend minefields do they, and dont the tenders only work when they're disbanded? And do I really need 1 fuel per mine per turn?

[inqistor]

I am pretty sure that non-docked TFs should consume fuel. But I remember, that in Guadalcanal Scenario I had few Midget Subs in enemy bases, and they had fuel all the time...

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Truk and Rabaul both have pretty large (300+) minefields with the tenders.. Do tenders consume fuel from the port?

Yup, they operate all the time, can even be damaged. Actually I think the same happens for minesweepers.

Your Post#8 example is from CVL, and CVs use operational points when operating aircrafts (just fly on them any airgroups, and you will see points usage), so that probably also uses Endurance.
Are your group operate planes (like Float Planes recon)? And were they NOT operating them previously?

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

I am pretty sure that non-docked TFs should consume fuel. But I remember, that in Guadalcanal Scenario I had few Midget Subs in enemy bases, and they had fuel all the time...

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Truk and Rabaul both have pretty large (300+) minefields with the tenders.. Do tenders consume fuel from the port?

Yup, they operate all the time, can even be damaged. Actually I think the same happens for minesweepers.

Your Post#8 example is from CVL, and CVs use operational points when operating aircrafts (just fly on them any airgroups, and you will see points usage), so that probably also uses Endurance.
Are your group operate planes (like Float Planes recon)? And were they NOT operating them previously?

Like I said they have been doing nothing. Shoho physically burned fuel(as did her escorts), not just ops points.

I'm 100% sure that at least in bases with no mine fields, TFs that are docker OR undocked dont use fuel. I have multiple examples of that. These very same TFs have previously sat for nearly a month at a base (Rabaul) and not burned a single ton of fuel...

Now suddenly when I moved fuel there and saw half of it disappear in 2 days I got suspicious and checked other bases and TFs for it. I think its safe to say here that I have multiple battleships at an island without a single liter of fuel, TFs is undocked too, and BB Yamashiro or her escorts haven't burned any for 3 months.

But now even when I moved the TFs away or disbanded them I'm still losing fuel, and the one TF(4x PB, ASW) that didnt do this earlier just did it, lost 10 endurance a ship while being DOCKED at Rabaul.

EDIT: Shoho's air units were put on the land base to avoid the penalties with CVs launching while at a base hex.

[inqistor]

So, you are saying, that TFs do not use fuel, when there is no fuel at base? But when you transported some, they suddenly began to burn it?

That may be some protection, to save ships for future, and they automatically docks, to conserve fuel. Have you tried to put BB TF on base with too small dock to dock them, and check what happens?

This actually seems to be bug in the code, where it first check base fuel, before subtracting fuel for patrol, and somehow avoid last check, if there is no fuel present in base.

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

So, you are saying, that TFs do not use fuel, when there is no fuel at base? But when you transported some, they suddenly began to burn it?

That may be some protection, to save ships for future, and they automatically docks, to conserve fuel. Have you tried to put BB TF on base with too small dock to dock them, and check what happens?

As I said above I have a BB TF (actually 2 of them) at bases they cant dock at. Also does not happen or hasnt happened with big SCTFs at bases like Makassar, Palembang, Kalidjati, Paramushiro, Port Moresby, Namatanai, Ponape, Tulagi, or anywhere else. Combat or support/xAK, doesnt matter. All other bases with mine fields have connection to other bases and fuel goes in and out all the time so I cant tell, but as its happening with Rabaul and Truk, with mines and ACMs(ACMs came together with those tankers). Definitely didnt happen at least at Rabaul when there wasnt fuel(and double checking, mine numbers were falling)

This actually seems to be bug in the code, where it first check base fuel, before subtracting fuel for patrol, and somehow avoid last check, if there is no fuel present in base.

Could be. I thought it could be almost-WAD, with ships not disbanded having to use keep some speed to not hit the friendly minefield. Why it didnt do that to all TFs(and why it calculated fuel consumption seemingly full speed 24h every other day and half day cruise speed for every other) I dont know, or why didnt the ships need fuel to avoid mine hits before the port had fuel.

Interestingly Truk has had enough ACMs through the campaign and always some TFs at port, undocked too, but yet looking at tracker there are phases of up to a week when no fuel has been used. So ACMs dont need fuel...! ....Or they do... Or ships at base do to not hit them, but only some TFs, and only when port has fuel?!?

[Don Bowen]

Are your TF operating aircraft?

[Erkki]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Are your TF operating aircraft?

Only one of the TFs was a CVTF and it did not operate aircraft, being protected by LB Zeros and Netties.

This turn only TF doing it was Rabaul's ASWTF plus Rabaul used some 400 fuel. The 8-PB TF led by Kashima at Truk did not use fuel, but Truk itself still lost some of it, 300-ish. I disbanded or moved away other TFs and endurances of those ships(all set to not refuel) have nothing odd this turn: disbanded ships didnt refuel and the ones moved to a base with no fuel didn't burn any extra(only 3 hex sail, all ships lost 3x40 endurance instead of 10+...).

[Erkki]

Heres our control patient, BB Yamashiro. As you can see, shes in a TF, endurance is less than 100% so she cant be refueled daily, and shes at a port 1 base which she cant dock. Shes been there for 3 months and has not lost fuel. In TF, undocked, no fuel at port, no mines in hex.