Naval bombardment problem

[hades1001]

Hi guys,

My Jap opponent complains that if you set way points for the naval bombardment TF, the TF will stop at the the target hex, won't retreat, even given "allow retreat" order, neither it will execute Bombardment.

It will just sit there doing nothing for the whole day. His TF was attacked a few times by my subs without being hit. And there is no air threaten to his TF. My opponent has reported this kind of experience for several times already since some time ago.

Naval bombardment without setting up way points don't have issues.

So is there anyone experiencing the same thing? Or any possible explanation for this situation?

[chuckj118]

We have had no problems with bombardments in my current game. Is the TF a bombardment TF? What is he setting the bombardment range to? Also, the aggressiveness rating of the command can be a factor. It sounds like the TF is running a surface engagement attempt rather than a bombardment. I would suggest checking all the settings.

I apologize if you have already done so.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Hi guys,

My Jap opponent complains that if you set way points for the naval bombardment TF, the TF will stop at the the target hex, won't retreat, even given "allow retreat" order, neither it will execute Bombardment.

It will just sit there doing nothing for the whole day. His TF was attacked a few times by my subs without being hit. And there is no air threaten to his TF. My opponent has reported this kind of experience for several times already since some time ago.

Naval bombardment without setting up way points don't have issues.

So is there anyone experiencing the same thing? Or any possible explanation for this situation?

Not a problem, it is a feature.[:D]

All bombardment TFs stand off from the bombardment target until night - then make a full speed run in to bombard. The stand off point is normally calculated based on the full speed of the TF. However, if waypoints are used and the last waypoint is closer to the target then the calculated stand off point, the game will use the last waypoint as the stand off point.

This allows players to control the stand off in a number of ways.
1. If you want the stand off closer to the target (for any reason) you can use a waypoint close to the target.
2. If you want the bombardment TF to be fully fueled and have all it's op points, you can set a waypoint just beyond full speed stand off point and let the TF refuel (either itself or from a replenishment TF).
3. If you want the bombardment TF to delay bombardment for a day or so, use a waypoint with linger option.

There are interactions between the routing options, retirement allowed, reaction settings, and "normal" TF movement. Mostly they are very logical - one just needs to get used to them.

[hades1001]

Thank you Nalamin, we are using the latest patch.

My opponent said that he has checked every possibility and he believed that the problem is using way points for the bombardment TF to avoid my subs.

If any Jap player is interested may be you can run a little test. Try to set up way points for your bombardment TF and see whether it will execute the order or just idle at the target hex. Your contribution will be well appreciated. Thank you guys.

[Cavalry Corp]

Is the TF set to direct/absolute

Sounds like he is trying to move round the subs with the wrong setting

[USSAmerica]

Did you guys actually see Don's post above?  He answered the question.  [:D]

ETA: At least, I think he did. [&:]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: USS America

Did you guys actually see Don's post above?  He answered the question.  [:D]

ETA: At least, I think he did. [&:]

Sure looks like he did to me!

[HansBolter]

No he didn't answer the question.

He provided parameters under which it might be possible to answer the question if one elicits more data regarding the situation.

Nothing in Don's answer explains why there was no bombardment.

The OP state's that the TF "won't retreat" even with "allow retreat" orders, but he doesn't state that it stayed for more than one day, which is what "won't retreat" should mean if it spent a whole day's movement getting there.

He merely stated that it "remained in the hex all day". If the TF used a full day's movement to arrive then they would naturally be expected to remain in the hex the whole day and not execute the 'allow retreat" order until the second day. The only way it would execute the 'allow retreat" order in the same day it bombarded is if it only used a half a day's (ie...night movement phase) to get there.

All Don's descriptions of how using waypoints affects the arrival of the TF in the hex doesn't address the issue of why they didn't bombard.

Reading between the lines in Don's post reveals the possibility that if the desired bombardment hex is set as a waypoint and not the destination hex the game may be freaking out a bit and refusing to bombard because it's trying to set up a high speed run from the last waypiont which also happens to be the desried bombardment location. [;)]

[hades1001]

Thanks Hansbolter, let me explain a little bit more.

Jap Bombardment TF stays 8 hex away from the target base, include a few CA and DD. And was set to move at full speed and allow retire. Normally it will perform a night naval bombardment then retire to the friendly base during the daytime phase.

However, if you set up a way point for the bombardment TF, say in the middle of the route, it still travels 8 hex to the target base, but it won't bombard the base nor retire. Even it reaches the target hex during daytime(for some reason it slows down in the night), the TF should still perform day time bombardment. And which is not the case here. The TF will just sit there doing nothing during the day phase.

Did I explain my situation more clear this time?

[witpqs]

You might include a save game and ask the developers to look at it.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Thanks Hansbolter, let me explain a little bit more.

Jap Bombardment TF stays 8 hex away from the target base, include a few CA and DD. And was set to move at full speed and allow retire. Normally it will perform a night naval bombardment then retire to the friendly base during the daytime phase.

However, if you set up a way point for the bombardment TF, say in the middle of the route, it still travels 8 hex to the target base, but it won't bombard the base nor retire. Even it reaches the target hex during daytime(for some reason it slows down in the night), the TF should still perform day time bombardment. And which is not the case here. The TF will just sit there doing nothing during the day phase.

Did I explain my situation more clear this time?

Yes, a bit.

I'm probably wrong, but my understanding of bombardment is that with "retirement allowed" a TF will only bombard at night. In order to get them to bombard in daytime they have to be set to "do not retire". So your setting of "retirement allowed" was what prevented them from bombarding in the daytime. I still don't see a reason for the lack of a night bombardment, unless as you suspect, setting a waypoint between their position 8 hexes from the destination and the destination somehow "glitched" the TF into not bombarding.

TFs set to bombard without way points and on mission speed will endeavor to set a waypoint of their own, as Don mentioned to set up for a high speed run in on the last night of travel to the base and will change normal mission speed to high speed (mission speed) automatically at maximum speed distance from the target. Don mentioned that waypoints can be manually set to get them closer than 9 or possibly 10 hexes for the final run in.

Perhaps manually setting high speed and also manually setting a waypoint between maximum speed distance and the target is what is confounding the routine that wants to do these things on it's own.

[kjnoel]

I had the same problem a couple of weeks ago (as the Allies). I set the bombardment orders with retirement with 1 waypoint 8 hexes away from target (TF had speed of 9 hexes), I set the waypoint to avoid search arcs and to ensure it retreated away from an air threat.

The TF just sat at the waypoint for 2 days and did nothing. I then cancelled all move orders and waypoints and reset it as a bombardment force and off it went. Even allowing for Don's reply I couldn't get it to work and now just set a waypoint with do not retire to get it to at least start from where I want, then next turn cancel everything and launch the bombardment from there. Doesn't help the retreat unfortunately but at least the approach is controllable.

Would love to understand HOW to get it to work as Don outlined.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

I had the same problem a couple of weeks ago (as the Allies). I set the bombardment orders with retirement with 1 waypoint 8 hexes away from target (TF had speed of 9 hexes), I set the waypoint to avoid search arcs and to ensure it retreated away from an air threat.

The TF just sat at the waypoint for 2 days and did nothing. I then cancelled all move orders and waypoints and reset it as a bombardment force and off it went. Even allowing for Don's reply I couldn't get it to work and now just set a waypoint with do not retire to get it to at least start from where I want, then next turn cancel everything and launch the bombardment from there. Doesn't help the retreat unfortunately but at least the approach is controllable.

Would love to understand HOW to get it to work as Don outlined.

That is exactly what I do.

Knowing that the TF will attempt automatically to set up for a max distance highspeed run, and sometimes wanting that run to start from 7 or 8 hexes instead of 9 or 10, I send it out with a "do not retire order" with a destination 7 or 8 hexes from the target (not a waypoint 7 or 8 hexes from the target) and then the turn after it arrives on station 7 or 8 hexes out I give it new orders with a destination of the target hex and a "allow retire" order.