Ship Design window Questions

[balto]

Ship Design window Questions.

My questions are all from my the Ship Design Window. I have read the manual and the Forums, I just do not get some of this.

1) If I try to add a Hyperdrive, it says that I already have one and that I do not need another. I get that, which is great. But if I add a Command Center, it adds it. What does another Command Center do? I do not see any of the stats changing? Speaking of which, the component window in the very bottom - I wish they were more informative, for instance, what the Command Center (or whatever component) really does.

2) The ENERGY box. I just do not get most of it. (a) Energy Collection, what is that for?; (b) Reactor Power Output, if I add another Reactor, this obviously increases, but what is the used for other than the Engines. (c) I think the Weapon Usage per second plays into this, somehow. You cannot tell because no matter how many weapons you pack on, the ENERGY numbers stay the same. (d) How would it benefit a ship to tack on a bunch of reactors.., would it fire its weapons like crazy, or what would this do? (e) What is the Static Energy box really saying to me? I see the math of Reactor Power less Static equals Energy, but what does that do for the ship? (f) for an escort it says "2.00 fuel units per 100 energy units" what energy units is it referring to and how does that work? (g) related to (f), I think - how come we cannot have a DISTANCE TO REFUEL on this screen? Or how do we calculate that?

3) WEAPONS. What is the Max Energy Used Per Second? I assume that somehow ties into the Energy box, but how? No matter how many weapons are added, the ENERGY box stays the same. Shouldn't there be some sort of help for us to see what all these weapons can do to a ship's power supply, or whatever you call it?

4) The ENERGY COLLECTOR again. I see it affects the ENERGY COLLECTION in the ENERGY box, but once again, what is this good for? A previous post said that it allows the ship to say idle without burning Fuel? If this is correct, how much Energy Collection do you need for a specific ship to not touch any Fuel when idle?

5) What does adding Docking Ports do? Do they speed up how much cargo can go one one ship, or do they just allow more ships to load up? For example, if you have 4 docks and you load 3 ships, is that the same speed as 20 docks and 3 ships? Or are Docks not related to speed at all?

6) Same question for Construction Yards, do they speed up construction or allow more things to be constructed at once.

7) Gas Extractor and Luxury Extractor. Does adding more of those increases the speed of extraction? If so, the math does not work. As I add them, the INDUSTRY window is not increasing to the stats identified in the lower left component window.

8) Why do Research Labs have Cargo Bays?


9) Rec Centers. How does this work? I see lots of things have them. What happens when you add more of them to a Space Station., does the Planet get happier? If so, by how much? How come Research stations have them, and what does that do?

10) Commerce Center. What does adding these do? I can add as many as I want, and I see nothing in the stats? What happens if I add more of those to say a Mining Station?

11) Who do the Plants do (High Tech, Energy, and Weapons)? It seems only Space Ports have these. In the INDUSTRY window, it increases the Manufacturing of these three. What does these do? What would adding more of these do?

[Nedrear]

1) You can give a ship 2 bridges, but other than having two bridges it is useless.
2) a) Energy collectors are exactly that. A solar power battery. Don't use them in deep space. They can replace reactors and spare fuel by stationary objects.
2) b) + c) + e) Energy is used for everything that... well uses energy. You see a static consumption which means "always needed" and a potential consumption on top of the weapons "energy by second if used". Use math and add these. Now you know how much more power you need to have left to fuel your weapons in a case of attack. Spare some more for shields recharge!
2 d) Like everything in real life the weapon got a shoting interval minimum. You need X seconds to recharge. Anytime! It would only shot less lasers if you got NOT ENOUGH energy.
2 f) It means the power output of your reactor. Your reactor will consume 2 fuel units to produce 100 energy. If you got 5 reactors with 500 energy to feed 500 your usage will of course - math be praised! - 10 fuel units per second!
2 g) Fuel is only consumed in a Reactor, which as a matter of fact got an efficiency. You can read it as a main information of your ship as well as the energy cost per second of the Hyperdrive in the engine panel.

Now we get everything we want!

dV = E(h) * V(H) : E(00)
t = V(max) : dV
s = t * v

dV is the used Fuel per Hyperdrive second.
E(h) is the Energy Consumption of the Hyperdrive
V(H) is the Amount of Fuel it eats per 100 Energy
E(00) is 100 Energy
t is the time the Fuel will last when you only use the Hyperdrive
V(max) is your Fuel Cell Capacity
s is the Range you can reach
v is the Speed of the Hyperdrive

3) It is ABOVE the weapons window in the lower section. Above it is a line "energy per second", but recalculate it to their shooting interval to get the real energy pike. Or simply math it by energy per shot multiplied by weapon number.
 
4) Solar collectors apply when stationary INSIDE a star system and can take over the demand of stationary energy costs. Don't use them in gas clouds or on permanently moving ships. You need as much energy through collectors as your stationary energy use is... of course.
 
5) The docking bays have a speed depending on your tech level. They only determine how many at once can dock obviously. To increase cargo get a cargo hold!
 
6) They allow obviously to build more... to speed it up use more production devices of energy, weapon and industry.
 
7)It does. Adding more will increase the mining speed ingame and in window. The 4 in "mining" will go to 8 then to 12... etc. Keep a better eye on your numbers.
 
8)Do they? If so it is a game error. Though one cargo bay may be allowed in a roleplay aspect. The crew wants to eat something...
 
9)A recreation center is needed for the stressed people of your planet yes... as is a medical one. Most people build small "Healthcenter" spaceports in colonies and big spaceports later when they have grown up. Figue what you need. You dont need more than one in a station in an orbit and ONLY one overall!
 
10) A station without a commerce center can not trade in ressources! Same goes for trading ships like frighters! Give everything that mines, trades or eats ressources a trading center or you will run dry! Though I heard state frighters will be added in Legends... still private stations need them!
 
11) Construction ships need them too. Why? Look above when I answered your construction yard question.
 
Note: I am not sure if this game is really that complicated, if there is a language barrier of comprehension or if some are just not used for analytical thoughts in this society anymore...

[Canute0]

1) a second unit of item you only need one on a design are just for backup. It maybe increase the chance for a succesful escape. But IMO beside a second autorepairsystem for bigger ships they are useless.

5) each Docking Port allow 1 ship to dock at the Station to load/unload/refuel

6) each Const. Yard can build 1 ship, but 2 ore more yard can't build at the same ship. When a construction dont get finished is mosttime a question of missing resources.

7) look at the middle right side for the Mining stats.

9) like medical it increase the happyness of the planet the station are. Resort station need them too, customer want to relaxe after a day looking at the space.

11) plants create the modules are ship/station need to build, then the Const. Yard put these modules together into a hull.  Mosttimes there are enough plants at the design. Except you add alot Yard to a spaceport  then you would need a few more plants.

[balto]

Canute, thank you very much.

[Malevolence]

One note on energy, keep in mind the energy above static needed for your thrusters during sub-light movement. A very detailed chart and graph is in the "Movement" area of the design screen (per image).

As far as I know, shield recharge is not/not tied to energy use.

[balto]

Thank you for your patience.

So in your screen shot if my Excess Energy is 250, I am using Hdrive (105), and Weapons use 40., I have extra power of 105?

If that is correct (I am aware I could be wrong), then (a) is the 105 extra just sort of wasted, or (b) does the Excess Energy make a ship somehow perform better than one without excess energy?

Sort of related, I would think the GRAPH in the movement portion would change as you add/subtract engines and reactors, etc.., but it does not.

[balto]

I found in the Galactopedia that many things are redundant (Rec and Medical, etc), but there is no prompt that these are redundant such as like there is for the Reactor. No big deal, just putting that out there.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: balto
So in your screen shot if my Excess Energy is 250, I am using Hdrive (105), and Weapons use 40., I have extra power of 105?

If that is correct (I am aware I could be wrong), then (a) is the 105 extra just sort of wasted, or (b) does the Excess Energy make a ship somehow perform better than one without excess energy?

Sort of related, I would think the GRAPH in the movement portion would change as you add/subtract engines and reactors, etc.., but it does not.

In the above screen shot, you have 250 excess energy output above the ship's static needs.

When you are using the hyperspace engines you use 105 energy of that 250 -- so 55 unused energy.

When you come out of hyperspace, and run at cruise speed you use 16 energy -- so 234 unused energy.

The ship only uses a maximum of 40 energy for weapons -- so the power plant can over produce 194 (= 234-40 to shoot all batteries and cruise at the same time).

Why so much extra? In this case the 1 reactor on the ship produces a lot of energy (260). We should add more weapons that use up to 194 energy (all else being equal -- given available hull space, etc.)

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: balto
I found in the Galactopedia that many things are redundant (Rec and Medical, etc), but there is no prompt that these are redundant such as like there is for the Reactor. No big deal, just putting that out there.

Medical bays have specific benefits for Troops units.

edit: if you mean, there is no benefit for stacking -- then unfortunately there is no warning. I think the reason for that is the game wants you to have the opportunity to create redundant systems in case of damage.

For example, it took me a bit of trail and error myself to see about the benefits of adding additional gas and ore miners on stations and ships.

[balto]

Thank you very much. And yes, I think it should indicate whenever there is a redundancy, but that is just small beans.

About your last statement on additional gas and ore miners.., are you saying that they are redundant, or they increase your extraction rates? If you say for redundancy, I am thinking that might not correlate to what Nedrear posted above in that the more extractors, the more you can mine. Am I saying this correctly?

Thank you again everyone for your time and experience.

[Nedrear]

Well if it is not an important ressource - for example caslon in a high storage fuel station - the extraction rate should suffice with one or two extractors by 50% margin planetoids using the stored amount to counter production pikes. But if a station gets damaged and this thing is... well destroyed... it stops working. So having more is an option which lessens the chance of all failing.

[Wicky]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
In the above screen shot, you have 250 excess energy output above the ship's static needs.

When you are using the hyperspace engines you use 105 energy of that 250 -- so 145 unused energy.

Corrected it for you.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: Wicky

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
In the above screen shot, you have 250 excess energy output above the ship's static needs.

When you are using the hyperspace engines you use 105 energy of that 250 -- so 145 unused energy.

Corrected it for you.

Indeed thanks.

[adamsolo]

It's clear that ship design is one area where many folks have doubts because it's so rich but not sufficiently detailed. With practice eventually you'll get there but I think we sometimes assume things that probably are not correct. I think this is one (probably a major one but the only) reason why many people leave ship design automated. Which is a shame since it means that people are not getting all the return they should. I love DW's ship design, but I have my share of doubts and probably some false assumptions as well.

I strongly suggest to the devs (if possible at this point) to include the info in this thread in Legend's Galactopedia and on the design screen itself (or on a further patch if not possible). I'm sure that there are a lot of people with doubts on energy consumption, solar collectors, "why need to have more plants", "why need to have more bridges", etc. Clearly more prompts are needed and better explanations given. I'm convinced that this is a critical area where the devs should invest to improve learning curve dramatically at the cost of possibly 1 day's work of development and testing. I think this was important to stress out.

Other areas that would benefit from further explanation would be how freighters really work (why they pick up the resources they do); how the reserved resources on the cargo bays really work; how important is the resources availability (the % of the resource), does it mean that a 25% Caslon resource mines only at 25% speed or is it something else. These are just some examples. Only trying to help DW attract and keep more players. In this case providing more info will help the latter significantly in my opinion.

\Edit For the ones thinking that this is what the forum's job is I'll say that the DW forums are great, amazing even. All doubts are answered quickly with enthusiasm, however you have to consider that the large majority of players probably never came, and will never come to the forums. And they have many doubts I'm sure of that. I know this because people ask me some of these questions on my blog from time to time. I do my best there, redirect them here but, I don't think that's enough.

[Bingeling]

My main issue with ship design is not understanding the screen, apart from me never understanding the power needed to recharge the shields (which should not be much).

My main issues are how the screen works.

I want to say

Blasters: Maxos blaster - 6

If I want to switch them for shatterforce lasers, I should have to change just the type of blaster choice. Not add/remove 6 blasters. Not to limit choice, you could still be allowed to have multiple types of blasters, but I never found that a good idea. And I want to be able to decide which base types/ship classes are to be automated, and the rest to be left for me.

That being said, the comparison between spare energy, sprint energy usage and max weapon energy usage would benefit from being easier to see.

[Malevolence]

I suggest you keep your comments and questions coming.  I think the devs listen to the players. For example, as I recall it, the "Maximum Energy use per second" data on the above screenshot was a direct result of player feedback.

I've also found that using this board's search in the "War Room" subforum reveals answers to most of my questions.

[RooksBailey]

ORIGINAL: adamsolo

It's clear that ship design is one area where many folks have doubts because it's so rich but not sufficiently detailed. With practice eventually you'll get there but I think we sometimes assume things that probably are not correct. I think this is one (probably a major one but the only) reason why many people leave ship design automated. Which is a shame since it means that people are not getting all the return they should. I love DW's ship design, but I have my share of doubts and probably some false assumptions as well.

I think you are correct in your assessment. If there is one area of DW that I feel is lagging, it's the ship design screen. This is a shame because ship designing in a 4X sci-fi game is so central to the experience. Right now, I find it so frustrating because your trapped between the confusion and tedium of doing it yourself, or letting the AI do a half-a^&Sed job of it. [:(]

However, I think CodeForce might be onto the right solution with the addition of 'carriers' to the tech tree. I think a lot of the confusion in ship design could be eliminated if all ship designs (including starbases and freighters) needed to be researched on the tech tree. By making each class a specific tech, with inherent strengths and weaknesses & possibilities and limitations (such as hard size limits, class-specific weaponry, drives, etc), some much needed structure could be brought to the whole process.

I am really excited by the other changes coming in Legends, so I am hoping that the ship design screen receives its share of polishing next.

[feelotraveller]

Best feature of ship design - its flexibility being able to stack just about any component on any ship. Love it.

Shortcomng of ship design - lack of information about the functioning of components with regard to the ships they are placed on.

Most wanted tweaking of ship design possibilities - a lab ship which can be deployed in appropriate systems for the research bonuses.

Edit: this applies to bases as well.

[balto]

With the help of this forum, I really getting the hang of the ship design. It requires lots of micro, but at least now, I get it. I recommend to others that they read all of the COMPONENTS screen of the Galactopedia.

The resources, and what you need, and the percentages - still a mystery -- but if you spread out your empire (5+ colonies or whatever), you kind of get what you need.., at least it seems that way.

The bases and stations.., the designing of that is a little inconsistent.., meaning sometime you can see your designs, sometimes you can't. I cannot figure out how that sometimes works.

It took me about 100 hours to get where I am now, but now that I am where I am at, I am seeing that is game is very very cool. Sort of reminds me of CIV 5, sort of..,.

Really looking forward to Legends. I think I can have some good input for the forum when that comes out because I am hooked.

Thank you everyone.

[ehsumrell1]

Very happy to see that you're enjoying the game Balto!
If you ever have questions, ask at any time. Someone here
will certainly respond. [:)]