Cluster Maps on 15x15

[Okim]

Hi, first of all congrats on getting another awesome expansion, devs!

I was waiting for playing on larger maps since the first days of DW. My dream was to play a nice and interesting game of 700 stars clusters on 15x15 map with enough space between clusters and between stars within clusters. But what i saw was a huge empty space with small and over-packed spots of 20-30 stars. I understand that this is what clusters are supposed to be, but i was hoping that map size is taken into account when calculating distance between stars in clusters.

Is it OK? And if so - is there is a chance to get a new cluster map with more space between stars?

[Gelatinous Cube]

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. However, don't discount the new distances between the clusters--they are much, much larger than they look on a 15x15 Map. Early game cross-cluster invasions are just not a good option. My most recent game on a Varied Clusters 15x15 with 1400 Stars got well into its third decade before I felt comfortable thinking about expanding beyond my cluster.

[YourConscience]

Also, where is my 30x30 option?

[WoodMan]

That's strange if the stars within clusters are still the same distance as before.  I play on spiral mode and the stars have been spread out across the whole galaxy, the densly packed center is now about as densley packed as the outside was previously, and the outside is literally one or two stars in a sector [:D]

I assumed same effect would take place on all map types.

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

That's strange if the stars within clusters are still the same distance as before.  I play on spiral mode and the stars have been spread out across the whole galaxy, the densly packed center is now about as densley packed as the outside was previously, and the outside is literally one or two stars in a sector [:D]

I assumed same effect would take place on all map types.

Yeah, the change does seem proportional. Also, each map type has it's own variables anyway. On cluster maps, the stars in the biggest clusters will always be very dense. In Ring maps, the "Ring" will be much more dense than the "Core" and so on.

I find the spacing on a maximum sized Spiral map to be absolutely ideal now. The difference in scale between 10x10 and 15x15 is just great.

[Bingeling]

The increased scale (which is deceptive), gives some nice little twists to research priority. If you have AI designed ships, increasing the number of fuel cells is not an option. So to manage, things like fuel efficient reactors, fuel efficient hyper drives, dense fuel cells all becomes more important.

Now, if you just could be sure the AI uses the most fuel efficient hyper drive

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

The increased scale (which is deceptive), gives some nice little twists to research priority. If you have AI designed ships, increasing the number of fuel cells is not an option. So to manage, things like fuel efficient reactors, fuel efficient hyper drives, dense fuel cells all becomes more important.

Now, if you just could be sure the AI uses the most fuel efficient hyper drive

I tend to use auto ship design and auto research, and I did notice that it took me far longer to "Blob" out. But with all the other new things going on I was certainly not with nothing to do while I waited. Means I finally have to start designing ships, if I really want the edge!

[WoodMan]

I do research manually but ship design on auto.

Starting on the edge of the spiral galaxy in my Gizurean game was a real challenge.  I've never used a resupply ship in DW ever, but now I'm researching the technology for them [:)]

Good thing is the AI empires nearest to me didn't seem to suffer either, my Haakonish neighbours managed to pick up 6 colonies while I'm still on my first, I'm guessing I got a particularly difficult starting position [:D]

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

I do research manually but ship design on auto.

Starting on the edge of the spiral galaxy in my Gizurean game was a real challenge.  I've never used a resupply ship in DW ever, but now I'm researching the technology for them [:)]

Good thing is the AI empires nearest to me didn't seem to suffer either, my Haakonish neighbours managed to pick up 6 colonies while I'm still on my first, I'm guessing I got a particularly difficult starting position [:D]

AI Ship Design, HUGE 15x15 Map, and AI's set to Hard is a sure way to be challenged. At least, it is for me. I do wonder if the difficulty setting affects the Shakturi too? They would incredibly hard with that colonial income boost, and IMO they are already pretty hard to begin with.

[Okim]

Guys you are getting a bit off-topic

[feelotraveller]

The cluster maps were my favourite in RotS but having checked out a few 15x15 maps in Legends I'm thinking that they won't be. I'm heading for spirals and... irregular. Yep, I believe they will be fun now with the additional spacing creating some texture. The clusters seem too extreme now.

[machitis]

I used to play primarily with clusters, but the larger scale is making irregular maps play fantastic.

[Erik Rutins]

I'm sure we could adjust the size of each cluster based on the map scale, if that's what everyone prefers.

Regards,

- Erik

[w1p]

Having customisable sliders for the different maps, ala star ruler, might be a good idea. eg. average stars per cluster, spacing between stars, spacing between clusters, etc. etc.

I personally think it's fine the way it is, but more choice is never a bad thing

[tjhkkr]

ORIGINAL: Okim
I was waiting for playing on larger maps since the first days of DW. My dream was to play a nice and interesting game of 700 stars clusters on 15x15 map with enough space between clusters and between stars within clusters. But what i saw was a huge empty space with small and over-packed spots of 20-30 stars. I understand that this is what clusters are supposed to be, but i was hoping that map size is taken into account when calculating distance between stars in clusters.

Is it OK? And if so - is there is a chance to get a new cluster map with more space between stars?

I think you may have hit the nail on the head; I think that is what the clusters are suppose to be. If you ever have seen globular clusters, they are very dense... but I suspect you knew that based on your words...
For your sake, I hope they make a change.
But I like the clusters as they are; I am hoping this will remain an option!

[feelotraveller]

Although not my flavour I can see that I will enjoy the challenges presented by clusters as they are at the moment. I think that a slider here would be very good. It is a matter of what the astrophysicists call 'clumpiness' - the distribution of the relative densities of matter.

[machitis]

I think I'll do my next game in a cluster map again -- I like the idea of getting from one cluster to another being a challenge. I'm not so sure we should race to decrease the distance?

[Webbco]

I've got a question that's (sort of) related to Cluster maps...

I've played 3 games now where other, more developed AI players are really spreading out over a number of clusters quite early on and have one or 2 colonies in each (so hhuuge expanses of space between colonies) making the map quite messy.

Either there are simply no more suitable colonisable planets in their starting cluster or there's a bug. I've turned on the editor a number of times to check other nearby systems to the AI player, and noticed that there is quite a lack of potential colonies for them, but surely there should be more than TWO potentials in a cluster?!

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Cauldyth]

I'm really enjoying playing on 15x15 Even Clusters. Those vast expanses between the clusters make for an interesting dynamic. The remote systems that do exist between clusters become important outposts.

[tjhkkr]

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
I'm really enjoying playing on 15x15 Even Clusters. Those vast expanses between the clusters make for an interesting dynamic. The remote systems that do exist between clusters become important outposts.

Oh yes, the would. They would be the scenes of some very intense fighting. You called that right!