Kaluga = land of milk and honey?

[Greyshaft]

For the last nine months the German garrison of Kaluga has withheld all attempts to reduce it. Each turn it regenerates to a strength of 36-42 and blows away any Corps I send up adjacent to it. I can accept that while the front line was close but for the last six months the front line has been out of TAC range so I wonder will this garrison ever wither away by itself or do I need need to keep marching Corps up adjacent to it to put the city under seige?

Von Paulus could learn something from this guy ...

[fvianello]

I think you have to occupy the adjacent hexes to siege a location, but anyway the whole reinforcement system is flawed. How could Germany keep reinforcing a panzer corps encircled inside a russian city ????

[Greyshaft]

I have tried occupying all of the adjacent hexes but before I can get him down to half strength this guy has crippled 3-4 of my corps and then he regenerates to full strength the following turn. I suppose I could send in a dozen TAC first but they've got other jobs near Odessa right now

[doomtrader]

This unit is able to regenerate up to 20% of it's strength every turn using local supply

[fvianello]

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

This unit is able to regenerate up to 20% of it's strength every turn using local supply

I think this should be changed with "a unit is able to regenerate up to x% of its strength every turn if it's connected to a main supply source". I don't think a panzer corps would be able to get new tanks while surrounded in Kaluga.

[doomtrader]

This is one of the moddable values.

Also such a unit can repair damaged tanks and also can use tanks captured on the enemy.

[fvianello]

Also such a unit can repair damaged tanks and also can use tanks captured on the enemy.

Oh, come on!

[Greyshaft]

OK then I see it is WAD.

[doomtrader]

HanBarca

Just take a look at the losses of Red Army in any attack against German fortified units. They needed like 10-15 times advantage to force Germans to withdraw

[fvianello]

The point is not about the Russian losses, but about the German possibility to keep reinforcing a panzer corps surrounded in a city a few kilometers from Moscow.

[doomtrader]

According to the game mechanics everything seems to be fine.

[Flaviusx]

Von Paulus would've loved this.

[Wolfe1759]

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

According to the game mechanics everything seems to be fine.

Might we therefore need to change the game mechanics ?

[fvianello]

Von Paulus would've loved this.

Definitely!
"Encircled? What's the problem, we'll just recruit and produce panzers locally. Obergruppenfuhrer, write to OKW that the city will be ours in a few days."

[Lascar]

So a unit completely cutoff from the homeland can continue indefinitely in a state of supply as long as they are in an enemy city (local supply)? And in addition to that they can even replace their loses and increase their strength level? I'm I understanding this correctly?

[fvianello]

So a unit completely cutoff from the homeland can continue indefinitely in a state of supply as long as they are in an enemy city (local supply)? And in addition to that they can even replace their loses and increase their strength level? I'm I understanding this correctly?

Exactly. But according to the game mechanics everything seems to be fine.

[Numdydar]

They are teleporting in supplies [:D] As I said in another thread, I could instantly move the entire German army from northen England to the East front in one turn without strategicly moving them. So if i can move entire corps like that, what is a few 1,000 tons of supplies [:)]

As long as your realize that this is not a historiical simulation, and that technology beyond our grasp is being used, then this is a great game. See Hitler WAS in touch with an advanced race after all [X(]

[Greyshaft]

I don't think its realistic either but EVERY game has a compromise somewhere and I'm not going to spoil my enjoyment of this fine game by continuing to bitch about a couple of ahistorical anomolies. I completely agree that there should be a cut-off point for these guys - say between 6-9 months of continual isolation (don't mention Leningrad here because that was not completely cut off for the entire historical siege). We've raised the point with the dev and he'll chew it over but if he doesn't change the game then I won't lose any sleep. If you want more historical accuracy then try WiTE, but once you back off the bleeding edge of accuracy you will always find issues like this. I don't like it, but I can live with it.

Now, on to Berlin !

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

This is one of the moddable values.

Also such a unit can repair damaged tanks and also can use tanks captured on the enemy.

I think it is unreasonable for a unit to draw any substantial supply from a city not in it's own country, the city would supply food and fuel, but not replacement equipment, ammunition, nor reinforcements (e.g., strength), except where air supply is available. Therefore, a foreign city should allow a unit to continue to exist, but not to substantially reinforce.

I think the Stalingrad situation went on so long because the Russians did not initially launch a serious attack, but waited for the German forces to weaken and concentrated in beating off rescue attempts. So in game terms the city would allow the surrounded units to survive, but not to add strength, which is more or less what happened at Stalingrad. The Demyansk Pocket was different in that there was sufficient air supply, whereas at Stalingrad there wasn't.

Obviously in time even food and fuel would run out, but the siege rules might cover that.

If this is easily moddable, could we have some direction how this could be done, without changing the main aspects of supply.[:)]

[doomtrader]

Think about it this way:

As long as you don't siege the city, which means surrounding it, there are some gaps, unprotected roads, etc, so some minor reinforcements and resources can be delivered.

We wanted the supply system to be easy to learn and understand, to bring some challenges (defend railroads, and important cities), but also not to put to many exceptions from rules.

Time of Fury is not going to be historical simulation, however I don't see a problem to mode it that way. I would like the game to be enjoyable to "Sunday Gamers" and for those more hardcore if they wish to play something lighter that WitP or WitE.