Help with the Dreaded PT Boat Menace

[vicberg]

Someone please help me. 4-6 PT boats in one port at sea. They can't be naval striked because I guess they aren't big enough (or do I need to be low enough, I guess). A Cruiser TF, Light Cruiser TF and DD TF all went into the hex, hit nothing and ran away though they were set to remain at station.

First, is something borked with the PT boats.

Second, what can be done against this gruesome menace?

[witpqs]

From my email:

Haven't looked at this turn yet, but... Air attacks against PT boats are supposed to be best done with fighters or fighter-bombers at 100' altitude setting (strafing). Zeros eat em up. Maybe 1,000' works too, dunno. Ask on the forum.

TFs seem to like to retire after a surface combat. Maybe not 100% of the time, but it seems pretty close. You did the right thing sending multiple TFs. Not sure why any would retire that did not engage in combat, though.

Even still, the convoy escorts have to be larger if there might be opposition that slips through. Last turn was 2,000yd visibility, no radar on either side... real easy to slip through.

You've also had really good success with destroyer squadrons killing PT boats earlier in the game. I guess it's not 100% certainty that you get them in one battle and if there were more than just one TF of them {hint, hint! [;)]} then it might take more than a day to get them all.

[CT Grognard]

Agree with witpqs, as Japan in the early game when facing the threat of Allied PT boats coming after my invasion forces in northern Luzon I set one squadron of Zero to Naval Attack at 100' so that they will strafe and attempt to hit with their 60kg GP bombs (rarely happens though), but the 20mm cannon does damage them badly.
 
In addition to this, small DD and TB surface forces with aggressive commanders and large reaction range settings.
 
I've found in combination this works quite well.

[HansBolter]

The AI routinely makes naval air attacks on my small craft like PTs, MTBs, HDML and such.

They can be attacked by naval air, I'm not sure what altitude settings may be necesary to get them to make such attacks.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The AI routinely makes naval air attacks on my small craft like PTs, MTBs, HDML and such.

They can be attacked by naval air, I'm not sure what altitude settings may be necesary to get them to make such attacks.

Need to be at 100'.

Zeroes seem pretty good at it.

[HansBolter]

hmmm, the AI seems to prefer sending torp armed Betties against them. will torp bombers release if set at 100'?

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The AI routinely makes naval air attacks on my small craft like PTs, MTBs, HDML and such.

They can be attacked by naval air, I'm not sure what altitude settings may be necesary to get them to make such attacks.

Need to be at 100'.

Zeroes seem pretty good at it.

1000 feet work as well.

[JeffroK]

Versus the AI my Asiatic Fleet PT's seem to do well about half the time and get wiped the other half.

Seems to me the chances are succeed or fail. I have also had similar withe the IJN mini subs, though they seem to hang around for eons after the base is captured.

[kbfchicago]

as an allied guy driving the "gruesome PT boat menace" am quite pleased to see the IJ air and naval response on these posts [:D]  Keep those CAs coming to chase down the splinter fleet...by all means dedicate more Betty and other AC to hunt them down...hold off from invading that hex with a large fleet because there's some floating plywood in the harbor...

At the risk of being like the public news broadcaster who let the IJN know that US Subs can actually submerge to depths greater than 100'....or maybe I'm just conducting some clever Allied OPSEC/propaganda here...hmmmm [8D].....

- PTs are nuisance vice a menace.  Yea, there are a veritable few examples posted on the forum of hitting the lottery but on the whole if you've got escorts or lead with a warship TF you'll swat these guys away.  They should keep you from sending unescorted invasion/supply fleets to the front lines within their reach. You're in the most danger from a savvy allied player who watches the weather and moon, raises his odds and gets lucky with a calm, dark, night attack.  If you're dedicating resources to chasing them down, you're doing your allied opponent a favor...

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

as an allied guy driving the "gruesome PT boat menace" am quite pleased to see the IJ air and naval response on these posts [:D]  Keep those CAs coming to chase down the splinter fleet...by all means dedicate more Betty and other AC to hunt them down...hold off from invading that hex with a large fleet because there's some floating plywood in the harbor...

At the risk of being like the public news broadcaster who let the IJN know that US Subs can actually submerge to depths greater than 100'....or maybe I'm just conducting some clever Allied OPSEC/propaganda here...hmmmm [8D].....

- PTs are nuisance vice a menace.  Yea, there are a veritable few examples posted on the forum of hitting the lottery but on the whole if you've got escorts or lead with a warship TF you'll swat these guys away.  They should keep you from sending unescorted invasion/supply fleets to the front lines within their reach. You're in the most danger from a savvy allied player who watches the weather and moon, raises his odds and gets lucky with a calm, dark, night attack.  If you're dedicating resources to chasing them down, you're doing your allied opponent a favor...

Late 43 the PTs get radar. I recently had a PT sqn place a torp into the Chikuma. I consider PTs a real threat to the IJN and use them to help the enemy commander decide not to run continuous bombard missions.

[obvert]

Invading Java in Jan 42 they are eating any amphib TF I send. Each has multiple escorts embedded + an escorting SCTF of 3-4 DDs and 2-3 other DD TFs in the destination hex. Not once has the escorting DD TF hit the PTs before they get in among the transports.

I think every attack so far has resulted in 1-2 torpedo hits and only 1 PT boat sunk out of 5-7 in the TFs.

I'll keep trying new things, but so far, it's hard to stop.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

hmmm, the AI seems to prefer sending torp armed Betties against them. will torp bombers release if set at 100'?

Yes, but you will never hit a PT boat with torpedoes. Hard enough to hit a DD. Change them to bombs and you will hit them.

[crsutton]

You have to pay attention to the moonlight. Low moonlight is PT heaven and they can do a lot of damage. DDs in high moonlight will usually shoot up PTs though.

PTs not only get radar later on but upgrades in armament such as the 20mm, 40mm bofors or 37mm At gun on some. In addition by 1944 they get the better MK 13 torpedo which is more accurate. Japanese PTs can't handle them and they are death to barges as well.

[john dobbins]

PT boats do not have enough draft to be hit by a torpedo, it will go clean under them.

[nashvillen]

I have hit PT boats with 250KG bombs from Vals before. Instant toothpicks!

I have also hit one with a 46cm main gun round from the Yamato, also, instant toothpicks.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

hmmm, the AI seems to prefer sending torp armed Betties against them. will torp bombers release if set at 100'?

Yes, but you will never hit a PT boat with torpedoes. Hard enough to hit a DD. Change them to bombs and you will hit them.

they seem to hit HDMLs easily enough with em tho....not talking about me doin it but the AI. I typically don't go after small craft like that with Nav attacks

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: john dobbins

PT boats do not have enough draft to be hit by a torpedo, it will go clean under them.

it's not "stupid me" doin it, it's the stupid AI

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

hmmm, the AI seems to prefer sending torp armed Betties against them. will torp bombers release if set at 100'?

Yes, but you will never hit a PT boat with torpedoes. Hard enough to hit a DD. Change them to bombs and you will hit them.

they seem to hit HDMLs easily enough with em tho....not talking about me doin it but the AI. I typically don't go after small craft like that with Nav attacks

I have the same thing happen to me Hans, and that's in a PBEM not against the AI. In the early game I routinely have Betty's/Nell's set to naval attack choose HDML's as targets and go after them with torps or bombs and hit them on occasion with both. As you say, it's not us doing it but rather the AI. I don't know for sure about PT's, I just don't recall if I've ever torpedoed a PT boat from the air.

[kbfchicago]

Invading Java in Jan 42 they are eating any amphib TF I send. Each has multiple escorts embedded + an escorting SCTF of 3-4 DDs and 2-3 other DD TFs in the destination hex. Not once has the escorting DD TF hit the PTs before they get in among the transports.

I think every attack so far has resulted in 1-2 torpedo hits and only 1 PT boat sunk out of 5-7 in the TFs.

I'll keep trying new things, but so far, it's hard to stop.

Interesting...would be curious to know if you're playing AI or human (not convinced the AI's dice aren't loaded on occasion...) and what the circumstances were (day/night/visibility). In three campaigns as Allies I can count the # of PT instigated sinkings on one hand, with a perhaps a few more hits. That's with being pretty aggressive with the splinter fleet (not much to lose...). One of the other posters noted radar which comes in '43 but unfortunately by then the IJN is usually not being very aggressive so opportunities tend to be fewer compared to the early-mid 42 period.

In any case...one of the great strengths (IMHO) about WITP-AE is "your mileage may vary" since the game has sooo many variables in play. The sum of my observation as an Allied guy is that I like it when IJ players chase the splinter fleet as the counter measures are generally out of proportion to the potential threat. At least in my experience...

[AcePylut]

Well PT boats is like being 20ish and in the bar-dating scene.

Mostly it's just painful and you come home empty handed, but every now and then you bag one!