spltting - is it an exploit?

[gwgardner]

What are your thoughts on splitting of corps and divisions? Frankly, even though I was a playtester for a long time, and I tested the mechanics of it, I never thought much about it otherwise, and never used it in my play.

I'm no number cruncher, and the thought of it is giving me a headache right now. If I build a corps, then split it, and then reinforce both to full strength, do I pay the same as for building two corps?

[JLPOWELL]

I think you pay a little bit more spitting, but its quicker and can be done in more locations, there are situations where it has siginficant advantages. I wouldn't call it an exploit or even particularly unrealistic (units merge and divide all the time in the 'real world' and stacking is a somewhat artificial constraint given the hex size. You can get some significant advantages by splitting. If it were cheaper it would clearly be an exploit, and l have not crunched the numbers but have 'formed the impression' (gut feeling that I trust) that it not. It may be that with certain upgrades (cost to repair) it may be cheaper, if so that should be patched.

[Rasputitsa]

ORIGINAL: gwgardner
What are your thoughts on splitting of corps and divisions? Frankly, even though I was a playtester for a long time, and I tested the mechanics of it, I never thought much about it otherwise, and never used it in my play.

I'm no number cruncher, and the thought of it is giving me a headache right now. If I build a corps, then split it, and then reinforce both to full strength, do I pay the same as for building two corps?

I like the splitting/merging features, used with the 'shift' position swap option, they are essential to achieve some flexibility, in a game with no unit stacking available. I am not sure that the way they work is the best, for instance splitting a unit should allow both elements to move, or fight next turn. They have already lost one weeks action why should there be a further penalty, by being frozen for several turns.

It was common practice to use cadres from original units to build new units, it has to be more cost effective than building a new unit from scratch. The game has the event of the Germans creating more PZ units by spreading force from existing ones. Let the player decide how much to split, by taking out the event. It would take one week to split, one further week to reinforce, perhaps they should have a lower tech level to start (absorbing new men and equipment), which would cost another week to upgrade and extra PPs, but the player could decide.

Another issue is that you can upgrade in the front line and fight next turn, but if this represents a unit being issued with new equipment, there would be a delay retraining. Perhaps upgrades should not be done in an enemy ZOC.

AFAIK reinforcing/upgrade doesn't save many PPs, but does save significant time, as the units are ready earlier, which seems OK.[:)]

[freeboy]

Interesting, the comment on stacking caused me to think, on one really abstract level, having a streangth rating of.1 to say 12 for a strong early war infantry corp... is actually a form of "stacking". When you stack divisions.. placing them all in these "abstracted" hex sites, we add streangth etc. It does limit pulling out depleated divisions, but even there  I regularly stop armor units, divs and corps, and add strength and rest for a week... It is one area this seemingly "lite" game shines.. in that it allows us the flexibility to "front everything from a greatly reduced division.. imagine in reality wha t a .1 ing is? A reinforced company??? to a heavyweight Senier General on location corp.. think corp level artilery and support units. etc..
Now I love the little art and other add ons.. all absent in this game, BUT one can see them hidden in those Stars.. ie think add General get extra punch from support.
The more I play the more I like this.. especially multiplayer
 

[Razz1]

If you know how to use splitting you can easily exploit it and win the game.

Reinforcements are allowed up to 20% when it's not in your home territory. It is also limited by supply.

Upgrading a level can only be done on home territory unless it is bugged.

[freeboy]

what do you mean upgrading can only be done on home area? I regularly upgrade axis in USSR???

[Razz1]

I believe at one time we had a beta version where you can only upgrade in your home territory.

We can debate whether that would be good or bad to have as a rule.

If I remember correctly, in SOP, I always had to SR my Japanese troops back to Korea, my home territory, to upgrade units. So, this option can be programmed. I forget how we wanted it to be in TOF.

[gwgardner]

You remember correctly. Upgrading by level and from division to corps used to be only in home territory. Doomtrader, is that now changed on purpose or by accident?

I'm not advocating either way. Just wondering the rationale for the change.

[Rasputitsa]

I expected that upgrading should only be done in home territory, but I am doing it with German units in France. [:)]

[Akmatov]

 Given that in Time of Wrath, the earlier version of what is now Time of Fury stacking was not possible; I'm delighted that it is possible to split/merge so as to concentrate more combat power into a single unit and hex.  Not to be able to do so is silly and utterly ahistorical.  

[freeboy]

well the flexibility is there with splitting and merging.. hosestly as German I love to split... and upgrade...
the speed is not too great as you must freeze the split off unit.. but it does allow you to do some things not otherwise, in game mechanics, possible.. ie add italians in Africa without shipping etc...