I give 3 Vals for a Dauntless!

[Oleg Mastruko]

IF I understand it right, when attacking at extended range Vals carry 60 kg bombs instead of their standard 250 kg weapons. On the other hand (again, if I got it right) SBDs at extended range take a 500 pound (250 kg) bomb instead of their standard 1000 lb (500 kg) bomb.

So, not only the SBDs main weapon is twice as large as Vals (OK, that's the way it was IRL), but it's substitute bomb for extended range missions is the same as Vals standard weapon! While the Vals substitute payload is laughable...

60 kg firecracker is useless against anything but the smallest of vessels and subs, and I'd rather have my Vals not flying any missions at all if they can't carry their 250 kg bombs! Is this realistic? I mean Vals flying to attack shipping armed with firecrackers?

Didn't Japs have something in between like 250 lb/125 kg bombs to fly the extended range missions in a game with?

Also, if I understand it correctly, Vals carried one 250 kg bomb AND two or four 60 kgs under the wings on standard missions, so why didn't they, say, take one 250 kg on an extended range, and leave 60 kgs behind?

Comments? I guess this is very easy to change in a patch if developers deem this needs changing...

O.

[Wilhammer]

Agreed Oleg.

Something is wrong.

From my readings, the "normal load" was the 250KG bomb, and the "overload" was the 250 KG bomb and the 2 60 KG bombs.

It would probably be more correct to have short range missions be the three bomb configiration, and the long range to be the single 500 KG bomb.

Another possible drisepancy that needs further exploration is the modeling of the bombs themselves.

Nearly all bombs used by Vals against ships were AP.

Nearly all bombs dropped by Dauntlesses were GP.

[Toast Master]

Forgive my ignorance here, but what does GP stand for? I know AP means "armor-piercing", but I've never heard of GP.

[rawink]

GP = General Purpose usually High Explosive
AP = Armor Piercing
API = Armor Piercing Incinediary
HEDP = High Explosive Dual Purpose
HEXF = High Explosixe Proximity Fused (AAA)

think thats most of the 1940's stuff..

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Originally posted by Wilhammer
Agreed Oleg.

Something is wrong.

From my readings, the "normal load" was the 250KG bomb, and the "overload" was the 250 KG bomb and the 2 60 KG bombs.

It would probably be more correct to have short range missions be the three bomb configiration, and the long range to be the single 500 KG bomb.

Another possible drisepancy that needs further exploration is the modeling of the bombs themselves.

Nearly all bombs used by Vals against ships were AP.

Nearly all bombs dropped by Dauntlesses were GP.

There was one most excellent recent thread about bombs here
at UV forums.

I think the "Nikademus" wrote very comprehensive messages
regarding this.

The general problem is that US bombs were inferior to IJN (Japan
used dedicated AP bombs) and that damage done by US planes
(and Dauntlesses) were historically much less likely to do real
damage on ships interior (they would explode on impact).

Please look at this thread (several messages from "Nikademus"
regarding this problem):


showthread.php?s=&threadid=23482&perpag ... genumber=2


IMHO, this should be addresses as well...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Luskan]

Hang on - I thought AP stood for Anti-Personel!l!!
HEAT High explosive anti tank rounds are armour piercing . . . I think?

[Toast Master]

Both AP and HEAT are forms of "anti tank" shells. HEAT rounds were simply an improved version of the standard AP rounds used against armored vehicles. AP however is a more general term that can be applied to various weapons and describes anything designed to penetrate the target before exploding. In the case of an AP bomb dropped by aircraft, the bomb would penetrate the deck armor, descend into the ship, then explode. Exploding inside the vessel rather than on top of it like an HE bomb, the AP bomb would cause much more damage. (Exception: I've heard of AP bombs completely penetrating small surface craft, punching a hole in the deck, completely traveling through the ship, creating a hole in the bottom of the ship and exploding in the water underneath producing very little damage to the structure of the ship.)

[Arralen]

Originally posted by Luskan
Hang on - I thought AP stood for Anti-Personel!l!!
HEAT High explosive anti tank rounds are armour piercing . . . I think?

Sorry, dude, wrong way here ..

AP - armor piercing
designed to penetrate the armor and detonate behind, uses a delayed fuse for that purpose (fuse mounted in the base so it isn't damaged on hitting the target); some small cal. APs and AP...-variants even do not have an explosive filler and rely on shock effects and shrapnel from the armor plating

HE - high explosive
designed to detonate on or before impact (proximity fuses; fuses are tip-mounted on small to med. cal.); anti-amor effect is in general low and depends on concussion effect and shrapnel

HEAT - high explosive anti-tank
detonates on impact (outside of the armor), uses a special shaped charge to form a "jet" of liquid metal that "welds" through; depending on shell construction there's limited all-around anti-personal effect from shrapnel and concussion.

hope this helps

A.

[Oleg Mastruko]

OK; let's get this back on track re Vals armament. Luskan, next time you don't know what AP stands for, at least pretend (joke )

Will someone from Matrix give us an rationale for 60 kgs extended range setup, change this in the next patch (should be real easy, I guess it just a database entry) or will this be just another in the series of handicaps against Jap player in this game?

O.

[Erik Rutins]

We'll definitely look into this. I've called Rich's attention to it so that he can either confirm or deny based on his research.

Regards,

- Erik

[Sonny]

Trade 3 Vals for a Dauntless? Yesterday in one of my games I had 49 (Yes 49) dive bombers attacking the Shokaku without any CAP around. I got 1 (one, unitary, solo, only, and any other definitions for one) reported hit!! The Dauntless may carry heavier ordinance but if they don't hit it don't mean a thing.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Thanks for the response Erik. That's what we (occasional) Jap players wanted to hear I guess

O.

[panda124c]

Hey can we add parafrags for the A-20 and B-25's. Or are they already factored in on Airfield attacks?

[Raverdave]

Originally posted by pbear
Hey can we add parafrags for the A-20 and B-25's. Or are they already factored in on Airfield attacks?

This sort of thing.....controlling the load-outs as in Harpoon2.... is not handeled by the game....pity, but thats the way it is. You have to "let" the squadron leader do this work.

[Odin]

Not Pacific Theater, but useful:D

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bombs.html

[Odin]

here:

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/fritz.html

[panda124c]

Originally posted by Raverdave


This sort of thing.....controlling the load-outs as in Harpoon2.... is not handeled by the game....pity, but thats the way it is. You have to "let" the squadron leader do this work.

Well as SWPAC I expect to, at the very least, get a report on what bomb are being used to accomplish my orders! Where the hell is my XO, I want that report now!

Actually I was wondering if the effect of parafrags were build into the model since they did play a big role in the destruction of Japaness air power in the area.