AAA losses in version 3.4 seemed very low. So I ran a simulation running a full turn of only air attacks against all kind of different units in a 1980's scenario. No aircraft interdiction from the defender. Ran the same attacks in Force AAA-lethality level of 40 and 500.
There were ZERO aircraft losses for almost all units. Only aircraft losses occured when attacking pure anti-aircraft unit counters (dome-symbol) or stacks that included at least one AAA-unit counter.
This did not happen in previous patches of TOAW 3. Is this a bug? Or is it caused by changing the AAA-lethality level?
No AAA losses in combat?
Moderators: JAMiAM, ralphtricky
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Oberst_Klink
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RE: No AAA losses in combat?
Kamerad Kender,
there is already a thread about this 'bug' in 3.4. Unfortunately non AA-type units, even with AA equipment, don't resolve AAA combat. Unit counters that are designed as AA units do *as you noted*. It should be *I hope* be solved with 3.5.
Klink, Oberst
there is already a thread about this 'bug' in 3.4. Unfortunately non AA-type units, even with AA equipment, don't resolve AAA combat. Unit counters that are designed as AA units do *as you noted*. It should be *I hope* be solved with 3.5.
Klink, Oberst
RE: No AAA losses in combat?
Danke Herr Oberst
Where is the other link? I did not see it.
Is there a workaround? Without AAA defense most post WW1-scenarios will become very "unrealistic".
Where is the other link? I did not see it.
Is there a workaround? Without AAA defense most post WW1-scenarios will become very "unrealistic".
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: No AAA losses in combat?
ORIGINAL: Kender
Danke Herr Oberst
Where is the other link? I did not see it.
Is there a workaround? Without AAA defense most post WW1-scenarios will become very "unrealistic".
tm.asp?m=3004187
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Oberst_Klink
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RE: No AAA losses in combat?
Well, I like the Btl/Rgt unit size scenarios and I always create/use independent Flak or AA detachments. As I said, until 3.5 we have to live with it I am afraid.ORIGINAL: Kender
Danke Herr Oberst
Where is the other link? I did not see it.
Is there a workaround? Without AAA defense most post WW1-scenarios will become very "unrealistic".
Klink, Oberst
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
"However, there's a workaround. Modify the unit icon graphics, replace the AA icon with the infantry icon."
This is the suggested workaround from the above thread..which should help: one could replace the AA icon with the infantry or tank icon. However I am unsure on how to do it in practice.
Could someone point me to the folder where the individual icons are? I was able to find just a global graphic file with all the units next to each other, so it does not look like it's the one I am looking for. Tx!
This is the suggested workaround from the above thread..which should help: one could replace the AA icon with the infantry or tank icon. However I am unsure on how to do it in practice.
Could someone point me to the folder where the individual icons are? I was able to find just a global graphic file with all the units next to each other, so it does not look like it's the one I am looking for. Tx!
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
It is the right file. I just answered your PM, btw.
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
Will give it a try and report if successful!
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Oberst_Klink
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RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
Update:
While doing intensive playtesting, the AA fire seems to be effective during the movement/interdiction phase...
The moving Tank Bde got harassed by the fascist's LwKdo Don Gruppen and see the results of the AA gunners:
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3.
Combat : Smite: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3, (other), attrition%= 7.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-88 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-88 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-88 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-88 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 19%
Combat : Check morale: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3, ouch=171,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check passed (quality or deployment).
Combat : End smite...
and look at THAT:
Combat : Smite: Axis LwKdo Don, III./SG 2, (other), attrition%= 9.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 33%
Combat : Check morale: Axis LwKdo Don, III./SG 2, ouch=300,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check failed (loss tolerance exceeded).
Combat : End smite...
perhaps direct attacks are the same... I need to check out what AAA settings I got, but this is certainly WAD.
BTW, the interdiction cost the Soviets 10 trucks, 3 (!!!) T-34
Klink, Oberst
While doing intensive playtesting, the AA fire seems to be effective during the movement/interdiction phase...
The moving Tank Bde got harassed by the fascist's LwKdo Don Gruppen and see the results of the AA gunners:
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3.
Combat : Smite: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3, (other), attrition%= 7.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-88 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-88 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-88 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-88 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 19%
Combat : Check morale: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3, ouch=171,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check passed (quality or deployment).
Combat : End smite...
and look at THAT:
Combat : Smite: Axis LwKdo Don, III./SG 2, (other), attrition%= 9.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-87 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 33%
Combat : Check morale: Axis LwKdo Don, III./SG 2, ouch=300,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check failed (loss tolerance exceeded).
Combat : End smite...
perhaps direct attacks are the same... I need to check out what AAA settings I got, but this is certainly WAD.
BTW, the interdiction cost the Soviets 10 trucks, 3 (!!!) T-34
Klink, Oberst
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- AAFiremo..rdiction.jpg (55.59 KiB) Viewed 1099 times
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
Did you check this further?
Would really like to know whats up with this, as I think it's a major gamebreaker.
Would really like to know whats up with this, as I think it's a major gamebreaker.
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
ORIGINAL: governato
"However, there's a workaround. Modify the unit icon graphics, replace the AA icon with the infantry icon."
This is the suggested workaround from the above thread..which should help: one could replace the AA icon with the infantry or tank icon. However I am unsure on how to do it in practice.
Could someone point me to the folder where the individual icons are? I was able to find just a global graphic file with all the units next to each other, so it does not look like it's the one I am looking for. Tx!
hi
(haven't played the game much)
is this easy to do?
and if so how exactly?
what file name needs editing? (i thinking of playing Directive 21)
many thanks
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Curtis Lemay
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- Location: Houston, TX
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
ORIGINAL: sanderz
ORIGINAL: governato
"However, there's a workaround. Modify the unit icon graphics, replace the AA icon with the infantry icon."
This is the suggested workaround from the above thread..which should help: one could replace the AA icon with the infantry or tank icon. However I am unsure on how to do it in practice.
Could someone point me to the folder where the individual icons are? I was able to find just a global graphic file with all the units next to each other, so it does not look like it's the one I am looking for. Tx!
hi
(haven't played the game much)
is this easy to do?
and if so how exactly?
what file name needs editing? (i thinking of playing Directive 21)
many thanks
It would be a lot of work. Understand that the first step is to replace all the icons of the infantry and armor units in the game with AAA icons. That has to be done in the Force Editor one unit at a time. Once you've done that, those units will employ AAA, just like AAA units do now. Unfortunately, they will all look like AAA units.
As Telumar suggested, though, you can then modify the unit graphics files to make them look like infantry and armor again. To do so, you would have to graphically copy the infantry icon graphic and paste it over the AAA icon graphic in each of the unit graphics used in the scenario in question. Then copy the armor graphic and paste it over the motor AAA icon graphic the same way, again, in all those unit graphic files. This could be done in the Paint program or any other graphics program.
I've attached one of the unit graphic files here, with the armor/motor AAA & infantry/AAA icons circled. This is the graphic for gray units at the medium zoom level for the bmp graphics. There are also small and huge graphics for each color as well. Finally, this would have to be repeated for the png unit graphics.
Of course, once you've done that, real AAA units will also look like infantry or armor, too.
- Attachments
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- units_1_gray_0.jpg (83.82 KiB) Viewed 1103 times
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
Uhm...I just got done testing a little scenario. The unit with all AA that had an infantry symbol shot down nothing. The unit with all AA that had the AA symbol shot aircraft down just fine. Sure things aren't just the opposite of what you are saying?
Wasn't the problem with non AA symbol units? The AA equipment in non AA units didn't shoot things down I think is what the problem was.
Yup, that's it. I made all the infantry symbol units into AA symbols and they shot stuff down just fine. Made them back to infantry symbols and they couldn't shoot down a kite.
Wasn't the problem with non AA symbol units? The AA equipment in non AA units didn't shoot things down I think is what the problem was.
Yup, that's it. I made all the infantry symbol units into AA symbols and they shot stuff down just fine. Made them back to infantry symbols and they couldn't shoot down a kite.
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
ORIGINAL: Shazman
Uhm...I just got done testing a little scenario. The unit with all AA that had an infantry symbol shot down nothing. The unit with all AA that had the AA symbol shot aircraft down just fine. Sure things aren't just the opposite of what you are saying?
Wasn't the problem with non AA symbol units? The AA equipment in non AA units didn't shoot things down I think is what the problem was.
That's just what the above addresses: All the infantry and armor units in the game would have to have their unit icons changed to AAA icons in the Force Editor. Then they could use their AAA when attacked. But, they would then look like AAA units. So, you edit the AAA icon graphics so that those graphics look like infantry and armor icons instead.
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
Ah, I see. What a huge pain in the butt. WTF. Why can't someone just patch the game like a real game company would do? This 'work around' borders on ludicrous. Well, actually it probably crossed the border and penetrated deep into the land of lunacy.
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
thanks for all the info
way too complicated for me but useful info i'm sure for others
i think i'll come back to this game after the patch
cheers
way too complicated for me but useful info i'm sure for others
i think i'll come back to this game after the patch
cheers
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Curtis Lemay
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- Location: Houston, TX
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
It occurs to me that it might be possible to more easily change the unit icons via the .xml files, instead of the Force Editor. But one would need to really know what they were doing to pull that off.
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
And it occurs that an interim 3.4 bug fix is not within the realms of possibility...
The TOAW Redux Dude
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Jo van der Pluym
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RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
ORIGINAL: Silvanski
And it occurs that an interim 3.4 bug fix is not within the realms of possibility...
I think not.
But it's like : All Quit on the TOAW Front.
There is also still no News about Ralph. Does somebody know something?
Greetings from the Netherlands
Jo van der Pluym
Crazy
Dutch
It's better to be a Fool on this Crazy World
Jo van der Pluym
Crazy
DutchIt's better to be a Fool on this Crazy World
RE: No AAA losses in combat? Suggested fix.
ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
ORIGINAL: Silvanski
And it occurs that an interim 3.4 bug fix is not within the realms of possibility...
I think not.
But it's like : All Quit on the TOAW Front.
There is also still no News about Ralph. Does somebody know something?
Sadly not.