"Kosher" First-Day Landings

[Q-Ball]

I am starting a new PBEM, and asked my opopnent what are acceptable first-day landings and what are not. But I thought I would open up to the gallery as well.

It's very possible to go deep into the DEI, but IMO, you should only be able to land at the "edges". It would have been impossible for the Japanese to sail a major invasion fleet past Dutch air search D-1 or D-2 without raising some serious red flags, more than were raised already by the RAF Catalina shot-down over the Gulf of Siam D-1.

Anyway, if Khota Bharu is realistic, then are the following OK:

Mersing
Kuantan
Miri
Kuching
Sinkawang
Jesselton
Lingayen
Vigan
Davao
Ternate
Manado
Sorong

Seems like those should be the limit; anything deeper is too....deep.

Thoughts?

[Dan Nichols]

My vote would be none of them on turn 1.

I would add Guam though.

[Icedawg]

On Dec 7, I limit myself (even in games against the AI) to only landing at Kota Bharu, Kuantan and Batan Island. Batan Island is close enough to Formosa, so any invasion fleet heading there wouldn't have caused much suspicion. The Kota Bharu and Kuantan landing forces could be explained away as heading toward Thai or Vietnamese bases. Anything else would have been likely to tip the whole thing off to the Allies. I also allow myself to paradrop onto bases in N. Luzon (Laoag, Vigan or Aparri). On Dec 8, anything on "the edge" would be fair game for additional landings and anything in range would be okay for paradrops.

[fodder]

I would also add Guam to your list.

[armin]

All are ok becouse from 7th december you have convoys heading in those directions. Except Manado and Ternate have no speed convoy just a regular one. Mersing should be done only with KB in area.

[Commander Stormwolf]

hey fodder that is a cool picture of nisshin..

but wouldn't you prefer "mogami cruiser fanboy?"

Nisshin and the 3 others belong in the yards being turned into CVLs [8D]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I am starting a new PBEM, and asked my opopnent what are acceptable first-day landings and what are not. But I thought I would open up to the gallery as well.

It's very possible to go deep into the DEI, but IMO, you should only be able to land at the "edges". It would have been impossible for the Japanese to sail a major invasion fleet past Dutch air search D-1 or D-2 without raising some serious red flags, more than were raised already by the RAF Catalina shot-down over the Gulf of Siam D-1.

Anyway, if Khota Bharu is realistic, then are the following OK:

Mersing
Kuantan
Miri
Kuching
Sinkawang
Jesselton
Lingayen
Vigan
Davao
Ternate
Manado
Sorong

Seems like those should be the limit; anything deeper is too....deep.

Thoughts?

Mersing is pushing it. Any Luzon or N. PI landings are fair game. Davao and Mindanao are right out. Anything south of there is out too, including Guam, IMO.

[Commander Stormwolf]

by the way yes -
you can land wherever you have Kido Butai in support

don't land in mersing unless you hit singapore instead of pearl with KB
don't land in hawaii unless you hit pearl with KB


but Dec 8 would be pretty funny if you did that [:D]

[Cap Mandrake]

Seems to me Sorong might be kosher on day 2. Lets say they left Palau before the Pearl Harbor attack. Even if they were spotted would the presence of shipping moving SW from Palau before the Pearl Harbor attack automatically signal hostilities?

Ditto the Eastern portions of Luzon or Mindanao?

In fairness they would have to have a surface escort (or CVL's) that could reasonably repulse Allied cruisers in the area.

[Q-Ball]

I think Chickenboy is about right; I figured Mindanao, and anything around there, is probably out. But N. Coast of Borneo is OK, as well as E Malaya, minus Mersing.

Guam is hard to get to with a turn-1 landing, and at any rate.....what's the rush on Guam?

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: armin

All are ok becouse from 7th december you have convoys heading in those directions. Except Manado and Ternate have no speed convoy just a regular one. Mersing should be done only with KB in area.

The question was legitimate landings ON December 7th..., and the answer is "None of the Above".

[Olorin]

I have a couple of rules for the first turn I'd like to apply in my pbem games, assuming surprise is on. Briefly:

If KB attacks PH, then landing on Guam, the Aleutians, the Gilberts and Hawaii is ok.
In Malaya, only Kota Bharu and Kuantan are ok. Mersing only by very fast TFs.
In Luzon, everything north of Clark Field, provided the amphibious TF can normally make 8 hexes per turn.
Borneo is off limits.
Eastern DEI and Mindanao are off limits.
New Guinea and New Britain are off limits.

[KenchiSulla]

Sinkawang

It is to close to Singapore.. Japanese had no business there. Also look at the gameplay consequence of landing at Sinkawang with baseforce and engineers. Build it up into a decent airbase as soon as possible and you have a torpedo base reaching into the interior lines of ABDA. The allies would have had a chance to respond in life.. They should get a chance in game!

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Olorin

I have a couple of rules for the first turn I'd like to apply in my pbem games, assuming surprise is on. Briefly:

If KB attacks PH, then landing on Guam, the Aleutians, the Gilberts and Hawaii is ok.

HAWAII? How do you figure that? It's one thing for a well trained professional naval TF to sneak across the North Pacific in Decermber, quite another for a lumbering herd of merchantmen. They would have had to travel much farther South to make any speed at all (and we're talking 6-8 knots) on the trip..., and that would take them into civilian shipping lanes and in range of air search from Midway. The rest are legitimate (though landing in the Aleutians in December is certainly "iffy"), but Hawaii is a pipedream.

[Olorin]

On second thought, you are correct, there is no way slow transports can achieve surprise in Hawaii.

[Hanzberger]

Take CB's advice. After turn 1, go crazy~! [:D]

[Phanatikk]

If you are going to attack PH, I'd say select "Historical" and "let slip the dogs of war." Clean up the poor Japanese planning afterwards.

I've run the Historical turn several times, and the damage done seems far greater than even tweaking the PH attack on non-Historical.

[Q-Ball]

This is good feedback. There is a wide range of opinions here. When I posted I didn't think all those spots were OK, but wanted it to be open-ended.

My personal opinion is this:

Malaya: Khota and Kuantan only. Not Mersing.
Borneo: I think North Coast is OK from Kuching through Brunei.
Phillipines: North of Clark seems to be a consensus
Mindanao: Off Limits

I don't think you can get an invasion TF to the Aleutians or Hawaii. The nearest Fast TFs with troops loaded are at Palau and Takao; way too far

[Dan Nichols]

If someone wondered, you can get to the Aleutians on turn 1:

A little scary [:)]

[Commander Stormwolf]

18 knot tankers are the same as 18 knot transports ..

could land the 18 knot transports on the evening of Dec 7 or

you could land a small SNLF with 29kt APDs


landing at hawaii would have been reckless ..
.. but the japanese thought about doing it [;)]