Problem using shore-based naval aircraft on carriers

[diamond dave]

Since VF-17 (Corsairs) is a carrier trained Navy fighter group, I thought I'd use them on Bunker Hill in place of her normal Hellcats. I discovered that adding VF-17's 36 planes or so put Bunker Hill's aircraft complement clear up to 180+! Meaning she couldn't use ANY of her air groups. Even though if you were counting each individual Corsair in addition to the normal complement of Helldivers and Avengers, the total would only come to 90, the maximum operational capacity. Anybody experience this, and able to shed some light on it? I've been able to use carrier-capable Marine squadrons on carriers before without penalty, I shouldn't have problems with a carrier-trained Navy squadron.

[wdolson]

If VF-17 flying F4U-1 (not -1A)? That version is not carrier capable.

Bill

[jmalter]

non-carrier-capable a/c take a 4x size penalty against the carrier's capacity - your BunkerHill CV is now an AKV!

[diamond dave]

Didn't realize that "carrier capable" or "carrier trained" referred to the pilots in the squadron - not necessarily the planes.

Thanks for the tip.

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: diamond dave

Didn't realize that "carrier capable" or "carrier trained" referred to the pilots in the squadron - not necessarily the planes.

Thanks for the tip.

My understanding is Carrier-Capable refers to the planes, Carrier-Trained refers to the pilots, you can sometimes (thru upgrades) end up with one without the other.

[crsutton]

Yep, I found out the hard way that the NZ F4U is not carrier capable either. I had such high hopes for it.....

[wdolson]

It can be made carrier capable in a mod by just clicking the check box in the editor.

Bill

[crsutton]

Not really needed though, as the Allies are swimming in carrier aircraft by mid 44 anyways. It's fine as it is and historical. I just made the wrong assumption in that all of them would be capable. I assume the NZ aircraft were modified for land use. Perhaps the tail hooks were removed.

[HistoryGuy]

I thought it might have to do with folding wings versus non-folding, but never did any research into early Corsairs.  Lack of Tail hooks make sense too.

[wdolson]

All versions of the Corsair were capable of folding the wings, but land based Corsairs had the wings locked down and the tailhook removed.

The -1 did not get certified as carried qualified by the USN, though the Royal Navy did use them on their carriers. Because it was not carrier qualified by the USN, F4U-1s in the USN/USMC pool are not carrier capable. the -1a was carrier qualified, so it is carrier capable in the game, even though they were only used in combat once on carriers before late 1944 when VF-17 was temporarily put aboard the Bunker Hill from land bases to augment the CAP when the Essex class carriers were getting some experience in a raid on Rabaul.

Bill

[geofflambert]

At what experience/skill level in which categories makes a pilot "carrier trained" and does the squadron have to have all carrier trained pilots or just some percentage? Also, do pilots train more quickly if they are based on a carrier with carrier-capable planes? I have in the past had "carrier-capable" squadrons become "carrier trained" while at sea training on a CV.

[USSAmerica]

Pilots are never carrier trained. Squadrons are either carrier capable or carrier trained, after spending an amount of time(which I don't know) operating from a CV. The squadron's capable/trained rating is not dependent on any of the pilots assigned to it.

Individual types of aircraft are also carrier capable or not. If you "upgrade" a squadron that is carrier capable to an aircraft type that is not carrier capable, they will not operate from a CV.

[Lokasenna]

A squadron becomes carrier trained after 3 months, or 90 days (I'm not sure which).

I have previously had a squadron become carrier trained while the ship was in port, doing pier side repairs. Other forumites have mentioned that they've seen squadrons transition to carrier trained while the ship was disbanded in port, so it doesn't appear to matter whether the ship is active or even whether you have the squadron assigned to perform any missions. So if you want to conserve planes/pilots from ops losses, you can set the unit to stand down and just leave the ship in port for 3 months.

[geofflambert]

Thanks, both of you. Now if I understand USS America right, you cannot become carrier trained on a land base. I wonder what happens if you have detachments that are trained and others that are not, and you combine them back together?

[Lokasenna]

My guess would be that they are whatever the main fragment of the unit is - if VMF-222 is Carrier Trained, but VMF-222/1 is not, and then you combine them... my guess would be that VMF-222 would be trained. However, if it were the reverse and VMF-222/1 was trained but VMF-222 was, then I would guess that they would not be trained.

I don't see why one would need to break up a unit, however. There should be plenty of CVEs available for training Marine squadrons for carrier ops, so splitting a unit in order to get more parent units training on one flight deck and gaming the system that way shouldn't be necessary... *shrug* If it even works that way.

[geofflambert]

Seems like it might be a good strategy to use the RN CV(L)s to train USN squadrons, at least in the early going, since the Brits take forever to come up with enough planes for them, and they're mostly crap anyway.