Combat Details

[The Red Baron]

Looking at the combat details dialog box after a battle, I've noticed the attack values of my units always compete against the general (???) defense ratings of enemy units, not their hard defense or soft defense ratings. Why is this? Shouldn't my 150mm SFH howitzer fire against an enemy infantry's soft defense rating, not its defense rating? If not, when are hard/soft defense ratings used? After some favorable combat mods, my artillery unit might manage an attack rating of 80-95, but they're plugging away against an enemy infantry unit whose defense rating started at 100 and typically gets modded up to the neighborhood of 150-240. This despite the fact that the enemy infantry is sitting in open terrain with auto-entrench values only after having moved the previous turn. The result is a miss almost every single time.

[Vic]

Hi Red Baron,

I think defense scores are only split up in soft and hard with tanks since i wanted them to be more vulnerable to infantry weapons.

The artillery seems to work as intended to me. Keep in mind if it fights for 10 combat round it will probably score 3 hits. That means that 5 guns will shock, retreat or kill around 300 enenmy infantry.

Best,
Vic

[sanderz]

anyone else seeing that ART (or AA or AT) units alone in a hex seem to defend really well even though they only have a small Inf contingent??

not sure how much this is due to entrenchment or 'no retreat' options (or my imagination) - just that i was expecting an easier time against these units if they were un-supported

[Ritterkrieg_slith]

+1 ART too strong unsupported

[balto]

Wow. As time goes on and I look at more of more of the DETAILS and TERRAIN INFO, I am seeing many things that do not make sense to me from what I read and think. I am starting to feel like I am getting more confused as time goes by.

I had posted previously that in the TERRAIN HEX, the RIVER numbers for movement are correct (VOLGA/MAJOR/MINOR/MEDIUM), but in the COMBAT part of the TERRAIN HEX, they are reversed (MINOR/MEDIUM/VOLGA/MAJOR).

I decided to run some test using Kharkov with Human v Human and no FOW to perform my tests. I have noted so many discrepancies I lost track. Here a few that I was hoping could be explained.

1) The HPs for HARD TARGETS are all over the board. SdKfz HPs in the Unit Details are 152/100. From AIR, they are 50 on SdKfz. When Sdkfz counter attacked by Inf, their HPs are 52!!! Marder II has HP of 40 when counterattacked by Infantry!! It should be 98. A PzIIIh HP are 194/128. When attacked by AIR, they are 65!! So are we saying that for HARD TARGETS, when attacked by AIR, your HPs are reduced by ~50%? And [ii] when Hard Targets are attacked by Infantry, it is somewhere halfway between the Attack HP and the Defend HP?

2) The KV1has a SA of 47, but the UNIT WINDOW says 42. I am thinking the UNIT DETAILS window is not linked to the combat engine.

3) The 122M Arty.., that does all kinds of crazy stuff. I see it attacks Guns with 38 (SA) should be 66.

5a) Here is the most mysterious to me. When Armor attacks across a Minor river, it gets no penalty. When the defending Infantry counterattacks, it get no penalty. The only penalty is when the defending infantry attacks, then it gets -35!!!! -35 does not show up anywhere in the Terrain Info for Rivers. 5b) According to the table, Rivers only affect the ATTACKERS HP. They are not, they are affecting the DEFENDERS HA!!!!! 5c) No matter how you work it, the River impact only shows up on the Defender side of the combat details, it never shows up as decrement in the ATTACK window. So this is really really really strange to me.

I am not being critical, I just am trying to figure the game out. Now that I am looking at the Combat details and the Terrain Details, things are not making sense to me anymore. Please help.

[Vic]

@balto,

It has been a concious design choice to make it possible for the player to look into the inner workings of the game. Not all games do this. But i wanted to make it possible for those who want to know everything. The values in the equipment description pop up are the general values. However in combat sometimes different values are used. So are tanks more vulnerable to infantry and air (armour thickness matters less against these opponents). If you want to see the "real" stats used in the calculations you have to go in the editor > SFT > click a sfType > combat details tabsheet > and read the actually used values there.

And by the way... yes while crossing a river the tanks are very vulnerable themselves, they dont fire less well (altough all attackers fire less well the first 2 combatrounds as a general rule).

Kind regards,
Vic

[balto]

Vic, thank you very much. I will be studying that tonight.

I am hoping you are reading my messages with LOVE. I think DC is super awesome. I am just trying to understand as much as I can because this game has a lot of units and PBEM could drag on for a long time, so I want to be sure I understand whatever I can before I commit myself to a long PBEM.

Thank you again.

[balto]

Vic,

Thank you. All kinds of hidden gems in that tab. I see a lot of 'Advanced Tactics stuff' driving this game - which is GREAT! Thank you very very much.