to clear objective (what is best way?)

[pekische]

What is the optimal way how to clear an objective from enemies? For example I occupy a city (the objective) but rest of enemies remains around. So the engine doesnt mark the city as mine. How resolve it? Even if I ordere defend with attacks and with aggro max (and place the mark of the ordere to the centre of the city) in the MOST cases my forces do nothing. I dont want to use micro and give an order of attack to each unit individually. So what is the best wey for cleaning an area?

[Lieste]

Rather than merely 'driving to the objective' attack on a broader front, sweeping the entire width of the objective, with the initial and subsequent objectives set near the friendly half and beyond the enemy side of the objectives.

This can either be done with echeloned attacks, or by using flank attack and frontal SBF positions.

Some depends on objective size and terrain complexity... more forces, with more closely spaced objectives are needed to sweep a very complex objective of large size.

Isolating the area before assaulting reduces the maximum forces that can be used to initially assault, but can be very helpful in limiting the enemy force size by denying reinforcements, and in preventing supply deliveries.

It is important to gain a toe-hold as early as possible, to deny 'secure' points that might accrue to the enemy ~ bear in mind that even if you have "secured" an objective, residual enemy elements may still be present and can be gaining "defend" points for the enemy until they are cleared.


There is no single answer though ~ too much depends on forces, supply state, visibility, terrain, fatigue etc. A 'plan' needs to reflect the ground truth, and whatever intel that you have available.

[Phoenix100]

Mostly, in the game, I have found Lieste's very useful advice hard to follow because there just aren't enough troops available as there's always multiple objectives which need taking NOW - so usually all I can do is give an attack order and let the battallion decide if it wants to do something clever with flanking etc (which it rarely does). Mostly I would hammer the objective with arty first - lots of it (though recently I have stopped giving arty orders myself because this seems like cheating - you can amass a huge concentration of arty under your direct command with very little orders delay and that can be VERY effective, but it's not very realistic, is it?)- then get in quick (if the attack works) and defend with an ever increasing box size to encourage them to clear the enemy outside of ther box, or - if cheating with arty - you can target the enemy outside the objective (but within the VP circle, and hence denying you possession) with arty and clear them very quickly like that. Take the very simple Hofen scenario, for example - you really haven't got more than a battallion to throw at each objective. Or the tutorial - you really do need a lot of men to throw a ring round St. Vith. Which I've never had by the time I get up there. Have managed to win both these as above, however. It's always touch and go though. Maybe the hard fact is that if you only have a battallion or so to throw at each objective then, as in RL, that might not be enough to win it or clear it, depending on defending strength.

So anyway - when is this patch coming?????? And the COTA pack? Still waiting. Still refuse to play with all these halts mucking things up.

[Central Blue]

Using your artillery that way is pretty much what the Allies liked to do. They trained for it, organized for it.

[Phoenix100]

Yes. Just meant taking arty under MY direct control, instead of letting the AI subordinates call it in, is like cheating, I think. Hard to resist though.

[Lieste]

Umm.. in the tutorial you can quite easily occupy the St Vith Area unopposed - then deny access to the II/48th as they arrive later

If you give him enough time for 27th VG to *walk* there when you have tanks and half-tracks then something has gone a bit awry [:-]

The day 3 to day 5 exercise is utterly destroying Peiper before the timer runs out [:D]

[Pergite!]

Belayed.

[Phoenix100]

Can't recall, Lieste, whether I went into St. Vith completely unnopposed the 3 times I played the tutorial - I think not (there was always something to fight) - but I still got in easy enough, as you suggest - my point being I didn't plan to throw a ring round it or flank it or anything like that, which really would have wasted a lot of time, no?

[Lieste]

Well ~ perhaps that is the first lesson - get there firstest with the mostest. [:D]

After that, the relevance of surrounding small 'bite-sized' pockets and eliminating them is highly practical ~ it needn't be the whole objective area, but the reduction of a single company is fastest if it can be isolated and then routed, rather than merely retreated behind it's cohorts.

Repeat 2-3 times and a battalion is 'destroyed' as an effective force ~ what is left can then be pocketed and reduced in-toto.

[Lieste]

I'd also add that it needn't use *more* troops, but that never hurts the local effort... it is more a matter of using what is available to keep the fight favourable... especially preventing small numbers of reinforcements getting to double the 'small number' of defenders in the strongpoint.

Far better to fight one small enemy element dug in, and to fight the reinforcements in the open, with yourself in defence. Also never underestimate the value of the opportunity to get eyes deep, to hunt for targets for air and artillery amongst his artillery, hq and particularly supply echelons.

[Phoenix100]

Despite me swearing I wasn't going to mess with this game again until the 'halting' bug was fixed I jacked up Red Devils last night and had a bash at it. Didn't come across any halting, interestingly, though it's early days in the scenario. BUT, I did notice that the enemy behaviour was way different than in From the Meuse to the Rhine, where I think the Axis priority initially seems to be to get troops from north of Arnhem, over the road bridge and down to the Nijmegan problem. That process - assuming you don't equal Frost's historical achievement (which I never have) and block the Arnhem road bridge by night 1 - means there are less Axis forces up in Arnhem and the bridges are therefore takeable (the road bridge from the south shore, I find, after securing the rail bridge and getting across the Rhine there). Correspondingly, there is a concentration of Axis power in Nijmegan and taking the bridges there is nigh on impossible (for me, anyway) until XXX Corps arrive, though you can block them easily enough at the southern exits in Nijmegan itself, in prep for the tanks arrival. What I found in Red Devils is that I couldn't see any evidence of Axis forces rushing off map towards where Nijmegan would be, just more and more of them heading up map to secure Arnhem, making it impossible to do very much. Is this the way the scenario is set up, does anyone know? ie as if Nijmegan wasn't there?

[simovitch]

phoenix, RDOA is designed for the German units to appear on the south edge of the map at more or less historical times; there is no German exiting. So yes, the 2 scenarios play out differently because the German AI ends up reinforcing Nijmegen in FTMTTR more than they did historically.

[Phoenix100]

Thanks Simovitch. I thought so.