I just read Wild Bill's post about the release of yet another great computer wargame from HPS Simulations. It's exactly the kind of game many on this forum are looking for. Yet, I'm absolutely amazed that I see very few comments on this forum about HPS's wide variety of John Tiller based games or their predecessors from Talonsoft. I own all of the Talonsoft John Tiller games and many of the newest ones released by HPS. They are great games and fit many of the wish lists I see here on the Matrix forum. Yet, I very rarely hear anyone talking about them on this forum. I hear many reports of other publishers games but scarcely little about the John Tiller games.
Why is this? These games are fun to play, very historical and accurate, and best of all they are very customizable. Just to give an example, I bought Campaign Corinth right after it was released and enjoy it very much. But, the best part is that I can alter the graphics to fit my own personal taste, and even better, the game allows me to recreate any Civil War battle on any customizable map and counters I choose to create. It's a little work but well worth the effort. Not everyone wants to put in this effort of creating new battles and scenarios but the game as published comes with more scenarios than any other wargame I've seen, and the campaign game is excellent. Not only that, these games have more fan/support sites than any other series of games I've seen. I've already downloaded fan created battles such as Chancellorsville, Fredricksburg, Champion's Hill and many, many others.
So, guys, what's the matter with the John Tiller designed games? Don't any of you own them? If you don't, you really should try one. I don't think you will be sorry.
P.S. -- I'd also like to reiterate my thanks to the Matrix people for letting me and others discuss competitor's products on this forum. That's just one of the many reasons Matrix is the best wargame site on the net today.
I'm perplexed (no surprise there, huh?)
Moderator: maddog986
I'm perplexed (no surprise there, huh?)
“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”
Re: I'm perplexed (no surprise there, huh?)
There used to be a lot of people here posting about Tiller's games. But they disappeared, suddenly and unexpectedly, one by one....................Originally posted by Dave Briggs
Yet, I very rarely hear anyone talking about them on this forum. I hear many reports of other publishers games but scarcely little about the John Tiller games.
[silence]
Peux Ce Que Veux
in den vereinigten staaten hergestellt
in den vereinigten staaten hergestellt
NOW HEAR THIS:
I have nothing but praise for HPS's John Tiller's "The Proud and The Few" (bias...former Marine here).
The basis is small unit tactics in the PTO. This game is **** near Advanced Squad Leader as one can get (far beyond what SP:WAW can deliver).
Any self-respecting wargamer is an ASL devotee, and hence should....no....must own and cherish anything from John Tiller.
Ou-Rah!
THAT IS ALL:
I have nothing but praise for HPS's John Tiller's "The Proud and The Few" (bias...former Marine here).
The basis is small unit tactics in the PTO. This game is **** near Advanced Squad Leader as one can get (far beyond what SP:WAW can deliver).
Any self-respecting wargamer is an ASL devotee, and hence should....no....must own and cherish anything from John Tiller.
Ou-Rah!
THAT IS ALL:
Turn the other cheek
Re: Re: I'm perplexed (no surprise there, huh?)
Yikes! How very strange.... wait... there's a knock at my door. Hope it's not the game police come to haul me away.Originally posted by CCB
There used to be a lot of people here posting about Tiller's games. But they disappeared, suddenly and unexpectedly, one by one....................
[silence]
If you guys don't hear from me shortly, call Homeland security. 
But seriously, I'm very curious why people have no knowledge of or don't want to talk about these games.
“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”
Well, that's one answer and I have heard it before. I own some of the WWII titles but mostly play ACW and Napoleonic titles. All I can say is that all the titles that I have are very user friendly and simple to interface. I can understand how the "boardgame" feel of the games might be tedious for those accustomed to more animated and graphic games. And playing against another human, as in all games, is vastly more fun than playing the AI. But, the fact that much of the program is open coded and can be edited with any text editor makes them very tweakable and versatile. That's an extreme plus in my game buying decisions.Originally posted by U2
Hi
I bought one HPS game (John Tiller's Korsun) and I will never buy an HPS game again:( Not very user friendly and most importantly I just dont have fun while playing them (I've tried of few more that a friend bought)
Dan
“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”
While you sold me! Guess I know what I'm gonna get for my birthday (Few and the Proud) and Christmas (Eagle Strike).Originally posted by Cheeks
The basis is small unit tactics in the PTO. This game is **** near Advanced Squad Leader as one can get (far beyond what SP:WAW can deliver).
Any self-respecting wargamer is an ASL devotee, and hence should....no....must own and cherish anything from John Tiller.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict a East Front version too!
Peux Ce Que Veux
in den vereinigten staaten hergestellt
in den vereinigten staaten hergestellt
-
Les_the_Sarge_9_1
- Posts: 3943
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 10:00 am
Sometimes it's just a case of finite funds, and a go with the best of the best and that sometimes leaves even number 2 out in the cold.
I have looked at the HPS site, looks nice. Bookmarked it for further study.
Additionally sometimes too, a game can have everything going for it but fail the marketing angle. I have never heard of most games.
Heck I have a hard time finding new exciting web sites.
Word of mouth is often everything. I can't even guess at how many of my key purchases have only come from word of mouth.
I found Matrix that way. Just about everything else came via my association with Matrix (I knew of MMP and Columbia Games earlier though).
Being a great game is not always enough. I personally think there is nothing better computer or board, that compares to the Columbia Games wooden block games.
They have it all, Napoleonic, Civil War, Desert, Western, Eastern, Combined European Front, as well as Victory which is multi player capable.
Yet I never really here much about these games.
Some sites are stores and nothing else.
MMP for all the thrill of seeing ASL revived, has nothing but the store to offer. Its sad. But I have asked, they are just not set up to provide an ASL Forum hangout.
Some sites have a game that is considered an industry favourite, but the site just doesn't shine as much as it might.
Battlefront has Combat Mission (which is hugely popular), but their forum's dynamics are not the equal of the Matrix forums by a long shot. And they seem plagued by a higher level of juvenile posters.
I think Matrix has combined a massively successful game Steel Panthers, with a definitely superior forum environment, and not been afraid to pursue a profitable course of action businesswise ie not concentrating on just a small few core games, while using a lot of consumer input to produce the best possible wargames of today.
They are covering all the bases fairly nicely.
I have looked at the HPS site, looks nice. Bookmarked it for further study.
Additionally sometimes too, a game can have everything going for it but fail the marketing angle. I have never heard of most games.
Heck I have a hard time finding new exciting web sites.
Word of mouth is often everything. I can't even guess at how many of my key purchases have only come from word of mouth.
I found Matrix that way. Just about everything else came via my association with Matrix (I knew of MMP and Columbia Games earlier though).
Being a great game is not always enough. I personally think there is nothing better computer or board, that compares to the Columbia Games wooden block games.
They have it all, Napoleonic, Civil War, Desert, Western, Eastern, Combined European Front, as well as Victory which is multi player capable.
Yet I never really here much about these games.
Some sites are stores and nothing else.
MMP for all the thrill of seeing ASL revived, has nothing but the store to offer. Its sad. But I have asked, they are just not set up to provide an ASL Forum hangout.
Some sites have a game that is considered an industry favourite, but the site just doesn't shine as much as it might.
Battlefront has Combat Mission (which is hugely popular), but their forum's dynamics are not the equal of the Matrix forums by a long shot. And they seem plagued by a higher level of juvenile posters.
I think Matrix has combined a massively successful game Steel Panthers, with a definitely superior forum environment, and not been afraid to pursue a profitable course of action businesswise ie not concentrating on just a small few core games, while using a lot of consumer input to produce the best possible wargames of today.
They are covering all the bases fairly nicely.
I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
Tiller games...or...We don't need no stinking interface
The Proud and the Few could have been a classic (Beach Red was very good), but alas as it has already been said in this forum...The Tiller games have crap interface. Click click click to move the friggin map...idiotic in this age of gaming
Re: Tiller games...or...We don't need no stinking interface
On every Tiller game I own, all I have to do to move the map is move the mouse to the edge of the screen, just like in SP:WaW. It's called auto-scroll. Absolutely no clicking required. As a matter of fact, except for the eye-candy, the interface is not that much different that SP's. You want to fire at the enemy, just double click on your unit and right click on the enemy target. Can't get much easier than that.Originally posted by cbclimber
The Proud and the Few could have been a classic (Beach Red was very good), but alas as it has already been said in this forum...The Tiller games have crap interface. Click click click to move the friggin map...idiotic in this age of gaming
“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”
NOW HEAR THIS:Originally posted by U2
Hi
Its a good thing I dont like John Tiller's games since he is mass producing them at a high rate:) My poor student budget would not take it. Talk about a guy that is not evolving his game system. Shame shame.......
Dan
"not evolving"?........ you have nearly left me speechless....
An example: Squad Battles was developed for Vietnam War scenarios, not to mention the campaign that was released shortly there-after. Throughout this time the HPS team has (multiple times) improved and added functions to the game. Then HPS turned their talents and direction to "The Few and The Proud", a Squad Battles simulation of the PTO during WWII. Once again the HPS team added more functions to the game AFTER PROGRAM RELEASE. Now as I understand it....Squad Battles will now focus on the ETO.
Now.... if this is NOT EVOLVING.... please do me the service and explain to me what is...
Ou-Rah!
THAT IS ALL:
Turn the other cheek
Again I have to disagree. His game system does evolve. In his newest ACW game, Campaign Corinth, there are many new changes to the game system.Originally posted by U2
Hi
Its a good thing I dont like John Tiller's games since he is mass producing them at a high rate:) My poor student budget would not take it. Talk about a guy that is not evolving his game system. Shame shame.......
Dan
He has added a campaign system with editor.
There is now an option to play in phases or turn based mode. A very good change
There is now opportunity fire allowing the defender to fire at moving enemy units.
He has changed the combat routine to take losses in individual men instead of twenty-five man steps losses.
Fatigue is now more accurately portrayed from 0 to 900 points instead of just 1 to 9.
And best of all, you can now create your own maps and battles much easier with help of the map editor from East Front. (If you don't have East Front you can buy it dirt cheap now) No more need for those large bmp map files. This also addresses your concern about budget problems. With this capability I can download or create an unlimited number of new ACW games/battles at no extra cost.
Those are just some of the changes in the system.
And you say the game system doesn't evolve?...shame, shame
“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”
Ok, ok:) You make some good points there.Originally posted by Dave Briggs
And best of all, you can now create your own maps and battles much easier with help of the map editor from East Front. (If you don't have East Front you can buy it dirt cheap now) No more need for those large bmp map files. This also addresses your concern about budget problems. With this capability I can download or create an unlimited number of new ACW games/battles at no extra cost.
Those are just some of the changes in the system.
And you say the game system doesn't evolve?...shame, shame
Oh I have East Front and I dont like that game either. It has potential but I find it SLOW. Is there a way to make the bombardment go faster? To watch a warhead after warhead after warhead hit their targets just made me hate the game. Talk about slow:mad: I must admit to buying Western Front+Rising Sun hoping for a faster and better working game only to find a SLOW SLOW SLOW game again. That really pissed me off. Well by the time Divided Grounds came out this stupid human had learned his lesson well:D
Maybe this is the reason I dont buy John Tiller games. I have bought one and thus knows that the newer games are the same with a few new features. New features like that reminds me more of a fantastic Matrix patch than something one can brag about having in a new game:)
You almost convinced me but then you mentioned East Front:)
One thing I have noticed though is that we wargamers tend to have a different taste. I always thought prior to coming to this forum that we all enjoyed ALL wargames. And just like with people with a different political opinion I respect your view on this.
Dan
Well, I'm not a great fan of East Front either. I certainly don't want to imply that all of the games are equally entertaining and I do have a definite bias for the Napoleonic and ACW titles. But you do have to remember that East Front was part of the early evolving system from years ago and we all know how much can change in just one year of computer game design. The only reason I mentioned East Front was because the map editor is key to creating maps for the other games.Originally posted by U2
You almost convinced me but then you mentioned East Front:)
One thing I have noticed though is that we wargamers tend to have a different taste. I always thought prior to coming to this forum that we all enjoyed ALL wargames. And just like with people with a different political opinion I respect your view on this.
Dan
Same here about respecting your views. There are many games I just don't like but others love. Variety is indeed the spice of life and wouldn't it be boring if we couldn't critique what we don't understand and praise what we do.
But I bet if we played a human vs human battle of Chickamauga you'd have a lot of fun.
“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”
I might take you up on that one day:DOriginally posted by Dave Briggs
But I bet if we played a human vs human battle of Chickamauga you'd have a lot of fun.
I think (after reading your posts) that testing a Napoleonic game from HPS might be better. I think I would like that Russian Campaign game. I did buy a few ACW titles from Talonsoft (John Tiller games?) and I liked them so much more than the current HPS WW2 battles engine.
If you played the ACW titles mentioned and also Napoleon in Russia (cant remember the exact title of that HPS game) please let me know if its worth purchasing. If its more or less the same engine it would be a safe buy for me.
Nice exchanging posts with ya
Dan
Yes, those Talonsoft ACW games were the original system designs by John Tiller and as I have said the newer HPS versions are better. You'll find the Napoleonic titles are a bit more "colorful" and slightly more detailed than the ACW titles, as they historically should be, but are basically the same system.Originally posted by U2
I might take you up on that one day:D
I think (after reading your posts) that testing a Napoleonic game from HPS might be better. I think I would like that Russian Campaign game. I did buy a few ACW titles from Talonsoft (John Tiller games?) and I liked them so much more than the current HPS WW2 battles engine.
If you played the ACW titles mentioned and also Napoleon in Russia (cant remember the exact title of that HPS game) please let me know if its worth purchasing. If its more or less the same engine it would be a safe buy for me.
Nice exchanging posts with ya
Dan
I want to be careful here suggesting that someone should go out and buy a game that I personally like very much. I think that these games are great fun, but you might differ in your opinion. Although I do recommend them, please buy at your own risk. And if you are on a budget, instead of buying direct from HPS, buy form an on-line seller like Chips & Bits or a local discount software dealer. You might save up to ten bucks.
“You're only young once but you can be immature for as long as you want”
HiOriginally posted by Cheeks
NOW HEAR THIS:
"not evolving"?........ you have nearly left me speechless....
An example: Squad Battles was developed for Vietnam War scenarios, not to mention the campaign that was released shortly there-after. Throughout this time the HPS team has (multiple times) improved and added functions to the game. Then HPS turned their talents and direction to "The Few and The Proud", a Squad Battles simulation of the PTO during WWII. Once again the HPS team added more functions to the game AFTER PROGRAM RELEASE. Now as I understand it....Squad Battles will now focus on the ETO.
Now.... if this is NOT EVOLVING.... please do me the service and explain to me what is...
Ou-Rah!
THAT IS ALL:
I must admit that the Squad Battles engine looks interesting. My problem was the WW2 battles engine (Korsun etc) which I really dont like. Only my limited budget (my gaming budget is 90% reserved for Matrix products) is keeping me from the jungles of Vietnam and the Pacific:)
I can see by your reply that you are a fan of John Tiller. If someone would critizise Gary Grigsby's games I would react in the same way:)
Dan
HiOriginally posted by Dave Briggs
Yes, those Talonsoft ACW games were the original system designs by John Tiller and as I have said the newer HPS versions are better. You'll find the Napoleonic titles are a bit more "colorful" and slightly more detailed than the ACW titles, as they historically should be, but are basically the same system.
I want to be careful here suggesting that someone should go out and buy a game that I personally like very much. I think that these games are great fun, but you might differ in your opinion. Although I do recommend them, please buy at your own risk. And if you are on a budget, instead of buying direct from HPS, buy form an on-line seller like Chips & Bits or a local discount software dealer. You might save up to ten bucks.
OK, if its the same engine but better I dont know what would keep me from enjoying it. Oh and I wont blame you if I dont:)
Dan