Uncle Joe

[Miller]

Can ayone give me a rough idea what he will be fielding against me now my game has reached the 1st August 45? Number of Divisions? Aircraft? Navy?

Cheers...

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Miller

Can ayone give me a rough idea what he will be fielding against me now my game has reached the 1st August 45? Number of Divisions? Aircraft? Navy?

Cheers...

I've driven the USSR in an AI game. If you're Japan I wouldn't worry about the navy (meh) or the air force (too short-range.) As I recall it was trivial to get twenty divisions, mostly heavy armor and motor-rifle, and thirty arty units into a fight. The first two move with great speed, they're huge, and they don't get their morale down too much. If you're fighting the USSR in Asia you're cooked.

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Miller

Can ayone give me a rough idea what he will be fielding against me now my game has reached the 1st August 45? Number of Divisions? Aircraft? Navy?

Cheers...

I've driven the USSR in an AI game. If you're Japan I wouldn't worry about the navy (meh) or the air force (too short-range.) As I recall it was trivial to get twenty divisions, mostly heavy armor and motor-rifle, and thirty arty units into a fight. The first two move with great speed, they're huge, and they don't get their morale down too much. If you're fighting the USSR in Asia you're cooked.

The game has been a blast so far and I have given out more than my fair share of punishment so I'm due a few painful months......I can muster upwards of a dozen or so divs in that area so it won't be a walk in the park for him if I fight in the right terrain.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Miller


... if I fight in the right terrain.

That's the key. There are only a couple of places where you can't get flanked. You need to get established in those places and dig-in. As long as you can keep your CAP in place, and "Joe's" bombers at bay, you can hold your line.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Miller

Can ayone give me a rough idea what he will be fielding against me now my game has reached the 1st August 45? Number of Divisions? Aircraft? Navy?

Cheers...

I've driven the USSR in an AI game. If you're Japan I wouldn't worry about the navy (meh) or the air force (too short-range.) As I recall it was trivial to get twenty divisions, mostly heavy armor and motor-rifle, and thirty arty units into a fight. The first two move with great speed, they're huge, and they don't get their morale down too much. If you're fighting the USSR in Asia you're cooked.

The game has been a blast so far and I have given out more than my fair share of punishment so I'm due a few painful months......I can muster upwards of a dozen or so divs in that area so it won't be a walk in the park for him if I fight in the right terrain.

I wish you well. You've never seen the armor the Soviets can bring. Nothing any side in the game can muster even comes close. Close off the rails; if he can use them there's nothing you can do to stop him. Terrain notwithstanding.

[crsutton]

Yeah 2/45 in my game and about two thirds of my Russian units have upgraded to the t34-85. It won't be pretty when I set those dogs loose.

[mike scholl 1]

In truth, the IJA was basically a light infantry army. And by 1945, they were totally outclassed by the Allies in everything but suicidal courage. The Soviets are about to unleash the veteran Tank Armies that defeated the German Panzers..., and do it not in jungle but on the Manchurian plains. "The Moose" is right..., things are about to get really ugly for Japan.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yeah 2/45 in my game and about two thirds of my Russian units have upgraded to the t34-85. It won't be pretty when I set those dogs loose.

The T-34 was an amazing weapon system in life and is the game too. But the real "Whoop! There it is!" of the 1945 Soviet activation is the numbers of them in each division (look at the OOB for a heavy tank div), coupled with the awesome power of the artillery you get as well. Major metro areas you would have sieged for six weeks in 1942 are the work of 48 hours or less. I said the air force isn't useful because it can't keep up. The Red Army will RACE across Asia after activation if you put the stack together well. Arguments about hiding out in terrain? Well . . .

[jeffk3510]

I am under the impression the T34 was just an average tank. (IRL, not talking about game.. never used the Soviets)

The pros were sheer numbers and how simple it was to keep it in the field.

[Alfred]

No, the T-34 was IRL an excellent tank, in the view of many experts, THE tank design of the war.

1. It had sloped armour when many designs did not.

2. The Soviets had great pre-war experience using the Christie track system. Many other designs used other track systems which were inferior.

3. The T-34 was wide tracked, again many other designs were narrower.

4. The upguned T-34/85 had a very good gun, probably the best Allied tank gun of all.

5. The ultimate compliment was that the German Panther was very much designed along T-34 lines. The Panther was not a markedly superior tank, if that at all.

Alfred

[crsutton]

Well I would say that the early T34s were average tanks. It was a good design with a few flaws. Slow turret, two man turret in the early version, weak transmissions and the lack of radios. But it got better with each version. T34-85 like the later American Shermans had most of the flaws worked out, and by the end of the war were radio equipped and a good gun to boot. Even with the heavy stuff the Soviets were cranking out, I suspect the T34 was their most practical and useful tank. Yeah, I would call it a great tank. Heck vs the average Japanese crappette the BT7 would come off like a panther..[X(]

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No, the T-34 was IRL an excellent tank, in the view of many experts, THE tank design of the war.

1. It had sloped armour when many designs did not.

2. The Soviets had great pre-war experience using the Christie track system. Many other designs used other track systems which were inferior.

3. The T-34 was wide tracked, again many other designs were narrower.

4. The upguned T-34/85 had a very good gun, probably the best Allied tank gun of all.

5. The ultimate compliment was that the German Panther was very much designed along T-34 lines. The Panther was not a markedly superior tank, if that at all.

Alfred

many good pts ........ but wasn't it hampered by a 1 man turret ?

[coreyjones]

If the t-34 was such a good tank how did the Germans manage to knock out thousands of them with their limited number of panzers. After the teething problems had been worked out the panther was a supremely better tank and was able to engage the t-34 at much greater ranges. Plus the jagdpanther has been normally ranked as the best tank killer of the war.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: srv24243

If the t-34 was such a good tank how did the Germans manage to knock out thousands of them with their limited number of panzers. After the teething problems had been worked out the panther was a supremely better tank and was able to engage the t-34 at much greater ranges. Plus the jagdpanther has been normally ranked as the best tank killer of the war.

I doubt it was the machine, but the Germans had radios, better training and leadership, and doctrine. But don't blame the machine which was as good as anything the Germans had.
Even at Kursk, Russian T34s did not really have radios. Unit commanders had one that could broadcast but the rest could only receive. Not very useful. Just like Japanese fighters, tanks without radios are soon tactically isolated on the battlefield and prone to get killed a lot faster and in greater numbers.

[Banzan]

Excatly what crsutton said. Early models hat serveral flaws, but the T-34/85 was quite a good tank. It still suffered from bad leading on the own side, while german front officers adapting the situation fast (mobile defense instead of plain defense - if possible), good leading and fast construction of TDs using any possible hull to carry a big enough gun.
Also, the infantry AT weapons research made large progress durin WW2 - from AT-Rifles to HEAT Rockets like Bazooka and Panzerfaust, AT-Mines etc.

I remember a polish friend showing me a source of T-34 losses during WW2, claiming its was a bad tank. But the same source showed western allied Fighterbombers being highly usless due very bad kill vs sorties ratio. I don't think any german commander knowing the western front area would have agreed on that.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: srv24243

If the t-34 was such a good tank how did the Germans manage to knock out thousands of them with their limited number of panzers. After the teething problems had been worked out the panther was a supremely better tank and was able to engage the t-34 at much greater ranges. Plus the jagdpanther has been normally ranked as the best tank killer of the war.

When the Germans invaded Russia in June of 1941 the T-34/76 was the finest tank in the world in active service. The German main battle tank at the time was the Pz Mk III -- which had only a 50mm gun. The less numerous German "heavy" tank, the Pz Mk IV had a short-barrelled low-velocity 75mm howitzer designed to fire high explosive shells in an infantry support role.

As soon as the Germans encountered the T-34, they realized they needed a better tank. As a stop-gap, they retrofitted the Pz IV with longer-barrelled 75mm guns that could fire an anti-tank round that had some hope of punching through the armor of a T-34. The first of these tanks were produced in March of 1942. But only a few hundred were produced, IIRC.

The Panther tank was designed as the German response to the T-34/76. When it finally entered production, in January of 1943, it was generally superior to the T-34. But from June of 1941 into early 1943 the T-34 was easily the best tank on the battlefield.

CRSutton has touched on some of the reasons why the Germans were able to succeed despite inferior tanks. One additional reason is that the initial German deep penetrations cut front-line Russian forces off from their lines of communication and supply. Many, perhaps most, T-34s and KV-1s, were not destroyed in combat, but abandoned by Russians when they ran out of fuel, or ammunition, or when they no longer could supply the maintance and spare parts to keep them running.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
When the Germans invaded Russia in June of 1941 the T-34/76 was the finest tank in the world in active service

+1

I thought this is pretty much an established fact among the armored warfare historians? I´m pretty well read on the eastern front and by all accounts I have read the T34 was a really nasty shock for the Germans. But better leadership, radios and superior crews managed to bridge the technological gap.

The Jap Tankettes would certainly be no threat to a T34.

[Encircled]

No doubting that the T-34 was the best tank in the world in 1941-42

I think the upgunned Mk IV Pz with the long 75mm gun was possibly the most produced German tank of the war, and was certainly a match for the T-34 until the T-34/85 came out.

One thing we can all agree on is that nothing Japanese is anywhere near as good as a T-34!

[frank1970]

If I recall right, most soviet tanks including T34, were destroyed by German AT-guns, not German tanks.

[frank1970]

Allied fighterbombers were crappy against tanks. If I recall right, over 1200 fb were lost for killing about 12 tanks or so.
But Fb weren´t designed to kill tanks but to disrupt supply and attack lightly armored vehicles. This task was performed well by fb.

So Japanese tanks are for hunting down Chinese infantry, soviet tanks were designed to kill German tanks. Soviet tanks will kill Nippon tanks with ease.