Status of Old Games

[pzgndr]

Erik Rutins recently posted this:

Hi guys,

In response to the many requests late last year, I just wanted to let you know that we are very interested in continuing to develop and improve TOAW, including the possibility of a TOAW IV in the future. We've been in contact with Ralph, who we would really like to be the developer going forward as he has been in the past. Ralph is going through some tough times and I think it will be some time before he is ready to start a new project or invest significant development time. Our preference is to give Ralph some time and hope that he will be available in the medium-term, but I know a lot of you are impatient for faster progress. Unfortunately I don't have better news right now than to say that whatever may come, it is not our intention to "retire" TOAW, it's our goal to continue and improve it.

We appreciate very much the work of all members of the TOAD team and the community in helping us improve TOAW to date and we're also interested in your feedback on where we should go with TOAW in the future.

Regards,

- Erik

Which is great. But it would be nice to get some official updates from Matrix on other games that are not on the "Discontinued Games" list; i.e., still sold and supported. Lots of games seem to hit a plateau and die in place, when perhaps a little more TLC would help a lot. For Liberty!, Commander Napoleon at War, and Empires in Arms come to mind, among others.

This begs a question, and I know it's a sensitive subject regarding developer's priorites and propriety rights and such, but can't Matrix/Slitherine do a little bit more to encourage its developers to continue game improvements or, at some point, promote 3rd-party developers to help keep old games alive? A good example is the Grand Strategy mod for Commander Europe at War. If the original developer cannot or will not continue to improve a game, then let someone else work on it.

[Hanal]

Well all I can do is respond to your interest in Commander Napoleon at War by stating that they do not feel it is financially worth the effort to improve that title. Sometimes I wonder if Matrix would be served by starting up a pledge system, similiar if you will to Kickstarter, where they could gauge the actual interest in an upgrade of old titles by the number of pledges (or "preorders" if you like) that they received. Say for example that they came forward with a pledge system for CNaW where they would need 500 pledges to produce the new title. As an incentive, the pledge amount would have a discount from the street price. They could set a drop dead dead or let it continue until the goal is reached. When and if it is successful alll of the pledger's payments would be processed. Now I know that some people will not like the idea of paying for a game that may take quite awhile to produce but that is something one needs to understand going into the agreement.

This process is done all the time in the boardgaming world and I'm not referring to KS in this instance. I have quite a few boardgames preordered such as Fleet Commander Nimitz over at DVG, Cuba Libre, The Hunters, Navajo Wars and Cactus Air Force at GMT and Redvers Reverse: The Battle of Colenso 1899 at Legion Wargames to name but a few, so it is a good work around to measure the interest in a game before it is produced.

[wodin]

Cactus Airforce and The Hunters look like good ones.

[Rtwfreak]

I don't want old games remade I want "new" games created. I could care less for a TOAW XXX version. Like Hawkeye in MASH said "We want something New", "We want something New", "We want something New".

[pzgndr]

A pledge system is ok for new titles, or reprinting, like GMT does. But something about computer games is different and may need a different approach. There's pre-release development where the developer is essentially on his own, then an income stream from sales after release, and then an active period of patches and upgrades for a couple of years (maybe), but then as sales taper off there's no financial incentive for the developer to keep working on the game. In some cases a new game engine is necessary to provide new features, so a new game is warranted. But other than fixing genuine programming bugs, how can customers expect new features and enhancements to an otherwise playable game without compensating the developer? There's a vocal subset of folks out there who demand more, and because they paid for a game once then they expect the developer to keep working for free. That won't happen.

All I'm saying is that in lieu of a game being unoffically retired, maybe at some point after a couple of years Matrix needs to consider reducing the sales price of a game and start charging a modest fee for patches/upgrades. Else, we (the customers) are left with games we want to keep playing if only they had this or that, but there's no good business model to support continued development. So we all jump on the next new game and the cycle starts all over again. Just an observation... [;)]

[wodin]

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

I don't want old games remade I want "new" games created. I could care less for a TOAW XXX version. Like Hawkeye in MASH said "We want something New", "We want something New", "We want something New".

Except Steel Panthers...everyone wants a new Steel Panthers..

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

I don't want old games remade I want "new" games created. I could care less for a TOAW XXX version. Like Hawkeye in MASH said "We want something New", "We want something New", "We want something New".

Except Steel Panthers...everyone wants a new Steel Panthers..

Currently I am organizing a strike, one in which, for the moment, warspite1 and I will STOP posting until we get a new Steel Panthers. I have been inundating Matrix with literally 2 emails every 2 years making this demand. Negotiations are not going well.

Want to join our strike??

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

I don't want old games remade I want "new" games created. I could care less for a TOAW XXX version. Like Hawkeye in MASH said "We want something New", "We want something New", "We want something New".

Except Steel Panthers...everyone wants a new Steel Panthers..

Currently I am organizing a strike, one in which, for the moment, warspite1 and I will STOP posting until we get a new Steel Panthers. I have been inundating Matrix with literally 2 emails every 2 years making this demand. Negotiations are not going well.

Want to join our strike??

warspite1

Well I'm not joining your strike - I've never even played Steel Panthers...whatever that is. Dumbass.

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: wodin



Except Steel Panthers...everyone wants a new Steel Panthers..

Currently I am organizing a strike, one in which, for the moment, warspite1 and I will STOP posting until we get a new Steel Panthers. I have been inundating Matrix with literally 2 emails every 2 years making this demand. Negotiations are not going well.

Want to join our strike??

warspite1

Well I'm not joining your strike - I've never even played Steel Panthers...whatever that is. Dumbass.

This whole act of uncivil disobedience was your idea. Are you throwing me under the bus of your ego?? That is mighty intolerant and I can't stand, no I hate, intolerance. Be gone!!!!!!!!

[sullafelix]

At the risk of stearing this back on track.

Age of Rifles, Battles of Napoleon and Steel Panthers all need to have new versions done.

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

At the risk of stearing this back on track.

Age of Rifles, Battles of Napoleon and Steel Panthers all need to have new versions done.

OMG, Age of Rifles. [&o]

[Yogi the Great]

ORIGINAL: parusski

Currently I am organizing a strike, one in which, for the moment, warspite1 and I will STOP posting until we get a new Steel Panthers. I have been inundating Matrix with literally 2 emails every 2 years making this demand. Negotiations are not going well.

Want to join our strike??

I think you should start the strike. Others can then inundate Matrix with emails asking them to not release the game.

[Rtwfreak]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

I don't want old games remade I want "new" games created. I could care less for a TOAW XXX version. Like Hawkeye in MASH said "We want something New", "We want something New", "We want something New".

Except Steel Panthers...everyone wants a new Steel Panthers..

Currently I am organizing a strike, one in which, for the moment, warspite1 and I will STOP posting until we get a new Steel Panthers. I have been inundating Matrix with literally 2 emails every 2 years making this demand. Negotiations are not going well.

Want to join our strike??

No, you're doing it wrong they want you to stop posting so as to save space and make that many less threads they have to read and/or moderate. What you/we need to do is "post more". Flood every forum with 100's of threads per day demanding a Steel Panthers remake. That'll show em. [:'(]

[Sarge]

Age of Rifles !.............

[Alan Sharif]

Another vote here for Age Of Rifles. Battles of Napoleon would be very welcome too.

[IainMcNeil]

There are games we sell where there is no ongoing development or planned patches, but I don't see an issue with this. The dev teams have moved on to new things or broken up and gone separate ways, but I don't see any reason why we would want to stop selling these games if they are in a playable state already. This ongoing revenue is one of the things that allows developers to make the next game and they just can't justify spending time on an old release which would not generate any additional revenue - that would be bad business and they'd soon be bust.

[pzgndr]

Iain, thanks. I understand all that, but the issue is how to generate some additional revenue to provide some incentive for continued development. Or allow someone else to carry on, perhaps under legal conditions of some sort for either compensation or as a hobby effort.

The current business model doesn't support this for an old release. So players are left hanging, and in many cases it's not like a new and improved release is in the works to look forward to. It's a reality, I know, but all I'm saying is that maybe some other business options could be considered to help keep old releases alive and improving.

[RockKahn]

I believe I've played more Age of Rifles and Microprose's (I believe) Red Storm Rising than any other games I've ever had. I eventually tired of RSR, but I only stopped playing AoR, because it wouldn't run properly when I upgraded my OS. I'd love to see those games upgraded.

[Rtwfreak]

but I only stopped playing AoR, because it wouldn't run properly when I upgraded my OS.

Look around for the DOS version and then you can still play it on any OS. Dosbox or D-fend Reloaded will run it on anything.

[RockKahn]

ORIGINAL: Rtwfreak

but I only stopped playing AoR, because it wouldn't run properly when I upgraded my OS.

Look around for the DOS version and then you can still play it on any OS. Dosbox or D-fend Reloaded will run it on anything.

Hey thanks Rtwfreak. You may have just opened up a whole new world for me. Well, a whole "old" world, I guess.

I dug through some boxes and found I still had it, and it is the DOS version on CD. I'm going to try it. I have some other DOS games I might want to try, too, like Lords of the Realm II. I played the heck out of that, too.

BTW, while digging, I found an SSI CD that I forgot I had. It's called The Definitive Wargame Collection and has a bunch of DOS games on it. I haven't played these games that much, but I'm going to take a look at them.

It has Battlefront:Panzer Battles, Battles of Napoleon, Conquest of Japan, D-DAY: The Beginning of the End, Decisive Battles of the Civil War, Global Domination, Gold of the Americas, Reach for the Stars, Sword of Aragon, Wargame Construction Set II: Tanks!, Warlords, and When Two Worlds War.

Does anybody ever remember ever playing any of these games? I'm sure the graphics and UI will be disappointing, but could be fun anyway. Maybe not.

I hope this DOS virtual drive thing works, and these CDs are OK.