SP III Improvements
Moderator: maddog986
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SP III Improvements
SP III is almost the ideal balance between operational and tactical simulations....
It could use:
1. Larger maps - current large size plus 50%
2. More units - but not that many more. Say 30,000 points
3. An AI that places objectives more realistically. Example: In an assault scenario, the objectives are close to the line of contact, they should be deeper (see larger maps)
These would make SP III the ideal game.
It could use:
1. Larger maps - current large size plus 50%
2. More units - but not that many more. Say 30,000 points
3. An AI that places objectives more realistically. Example: In an assault scenario, the objectives are close to the line of contact, they should be deeper (see larger maps)
These would make SP III the ideal game.
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Maybe with this post we could gather some interest into a redo to make SP3 a better game. A while ago I placed a post on my idea of how to make it a better game. With your idea of a bigger map (I like the scroll size of SPWAW), and with inproved graphics this is my idea: The game would have the operational/strategic play as it does now, but when the player became engaged with the enemy, the player would have the option to conduct tactical battle at the scale of SPWAW/SPMW. You would be able to go from a 200yd hex to a 50yd hex. Two different screens would have to interface with each other. I think this would give the player the ability to conduct division/brigade level strategy, and then be able to resolve it with squad/vehicle level tactics. This would be similar to the concept
of the old Mattel Sea Battles game. To my knowledge no other war game has this option
but it would give the player the ability to see how tactics and operational strategy work together. What do you guys think??

Semper Fi
Randy
Semper Fi
Randy
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Randy
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I've been in contact with Paul about some of these issues and "While there are a number
of resource and technical reasons it is unlikely we will get to do an SP3
specific mod," which I think is MatrixSpeak for the'll be penguins in hell before that day ever gets here.
He did mention something on the lines of what Randy was talking about in his post. Even Kampfgruppe for the C-64 was more flexible as far as maps went. 
of resource and technical reasons it is unlikely we will get to do an SP3
specific mod," which I think is MatrixSpeak for the'll be penguins in hell before that day ever gets here.


- Paul Vebber
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No, its just as I said, we aren't going to delay the games we are working on to start a free game project right now. Even if we had the resources to do it, we can't just "undo" the SP:WaW changes to get SP3 scale with SP:WaW, much of what we have changed is now incompatible with the old SP3 OOBs, game formats and data handling.
Making bigger maps for example required a lot more than just allocating more hexes to maps, even with the effort we put in, we could not make the maps wider - only taller. And that required modifying the interface, the file formats, the map creation routies, and suddenly go from "just expand the dimensions of the array" to a whole lot of work.
Similar with adding units, we thought it was "easy" but there where several "2nd order consequences" that caused units to be partially overwritten with other units data and worse causing at best data corruption and worse crashes.
We can't by contractual agreement just give out the code to interested parties to try to fix things. So we either stop production on a "sellable game" and pay a programmer to work on a project we can't recover the costs from...
OR we try to find ways to get the functionality that SP3 fans want built into any entirely new game we do. The idea of a company/platton level "grand tactical layer' that allows manuever of SP3 sized units and then resolve the resultant battles in teh tactical game are things we are working on for Combat Leader that could be adpated for use by a follow-on to SP:WaW.
Take a look at posts in the CL forum tlaking about "operational layer" or "grand tactical layer" and see if that road might take you where you want to go.
[ May 04, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]
Making bigger maps for example required a lot more than just allocating more hexes to maps, even with the effort we put in, we could not make the maps wider - only taller. And that required modifying the interface, the file formats, the map creation routies, and suddenly go from "just expand the dimensions of the array" to a whole lot of work.
Similar with adding units, we thought it was "easy" but there where several "2nd order consequences" that caused units to be partially overwritten with other units data and worse causing at best data corruption and worse crashes.
We can't by contractual agreement just give out the code to interested parties to try to fix things. So we either stop production on a "sellable game" and pay a programmer to work on a project we can't recover the costs from...
OR we try to find ways to get the functionality that SP3 fans want built into any entirely new game we do. The idea of a company/platton level "grand tactical layer' that allows manuever of SP3 sized units and then resolve the resultant battles in teh tactical game are things we are working on for Combat Leader that could be adpated for use by a follow-on to SP:WaW.
Take a look at posts in the CL forum tlaking about "operational layer" or "grand tactical layer" and see if that road might take you where you want to go.
[ May 04, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]
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Bless you, Paul, for being so patient on the subject of a SP3 redo. I was no different than the majority of people who wanted the same thing when we saw the success you had with World at War. Clearly the demand remains for a game that builds on the success of both World at War and SP3. Rest assured that most if not all of the people here would buy a game which did that from Matrix in a heartbeat.
We'll continue to look forward to the stream of quality that has given Matrix their great start. (Now, if you could just recruit Norm Koger....)
We'll continue to look forward to the stream of quality that has given Matrix their great start. (Now, if you could just recruit Norm Koger....)
"If you start to take Vienna, take Vienna." -- Napoleon
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Al:
Check out the Moderna upgrade for Seel Panthers III. Its the best your gonna get.
SP3 is an old tired,outdated game engine.
and on top of that,SSI still owns the rights and Matrix cant make anything off it.
Im sure these new game engines that they are working on will be highly superior to an old dos program.
Even though they did an outstanding job
reworking SPWAW.
Check out the Moderna upgrade for Seel Panthers III. Its the best your gonna get.
SP3 is an old tired,outdated game engine.
and on top of that,SSI still owns the rights and Matrix cant make anything off it.
Im sure these new game engines that they are working on will be highly superior to an old dos program.
Even though they did an outstanding job
reworking SPWAW.
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- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:00 am
Al:
Here it is.
http:/members.nbci.com/_XMCM/zipuli/Moderna.htm
I am using the Steel Panthers III version 1.1 when I install Moderna, I have the upgrade and can send it to you if you need it.
Contact me at vze27nyg@verizon.net for Moderna cyber conflict anytime.
We can get an online or e-mail game going.
I was playing the US Army vs Russians 1980
Strela teams fired early and often on my Cobra's. They didnt hit anything though.
[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: MacCready ]
Here it is.
http:/members.nbci.com/_XMCM/zipuli/Moderna.htm
I am using the Steel Panthers III version 1.1 when I install Moderna, I have the upgrade and can send it to you if you need it.
Contact me at vze27nyg@verizon.net for Moderna cyber conflict anytime.
We can get an online or e-mail game going.
I was playing the US Army vs Russians 1980
Strela teams fired early and often on my Cobra's. They didnt hit anything though.
[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: MacCready ]
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- Paul Vebber
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I have a nice shiny mostly under used copy of Steel Panthers 3.
About all I want is it to get a nice easy to use alteration to have a more windows friendly non dos interface.
For my money the biggest thrill of SPWaW that I have yet seen is its windows interface. I am running version 6.0 and I still say making it windows friendly is my favourite change.
Ok I am clearly not very computer savvy. But I have crashed, trashed and fouled my computer once to often trying to play one or another old dos game on ole Bill Gates's screwed up attempt at re inventing the wheel. I hear Windows XP hardly ever gives ya a problem. To late Bill!!, you should have put more effort into Win 95. I aint buying new hardware to run yer damn Win XP!!.
Ok take a deep breathe and calm down Les.
Forget making old games "better" according to some list member. I only want Matrix to produce patches that would make old dos wargames work on my dang computer without me learning advanced programming heheh.
My list is a long one too. I see them games over at theunderdogs.com and I lament that they just wont run on my computer for some silly reason like the game insists on loading from a non existent 5.25 disk drive or some stupidity. Drives me crazy that my fairly powerful computer wont run a fairly low tech game (shouldnt the problem be the other way around?).
About all I want is it to get a nice easy to use alteration to have a more windows friendly non dos interface.
For my money the biggest thrill of SPWaW that I have yet seen is its windows interface. I am running version 6.0 and I still say making it windows friendly is my favourite change.
Ok I am clearly not very computer savvy. But I have crashed, trashed and fouled my computer once to often trying to play one or another old dos game on ole Bill Gates's screwed up attempt at re inventing the wheel. I hear Windows XP hardly ever gives ya a problem. To late Bill!!, you should have put more effort into Win 95. I aint buying new hardware to run yer damn Win XP!!.
Ok take a deep breathe and calm down Les.
Forget making old games "better" according to some list member. I only want Matrix to produce patches that would make old dos wargames work on my dang computer without me learning advanced programming heheh.
My list is a long one too. I see them games over at theunderdogs.com and I lament that they just wont run on my computer for some silly reason like the game insists on loading from a non existent 5.25 disk drive or some stupidity. Drives me crazy that my fairly powerful computer wont run a fairly low tech game (shouldnt the problem be the other way around?).
I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.