Air supply - singing the can't get no gas blues

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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rmonical
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Air supply - singing the can't get no gas blues

Post by rmonical »

I have seen a number of posts complaining about air resupply. Especially of units that should be supplied by normal means. Even though XXXXVI Pz.Korps is sitting on the rail, this turn it did not get a good allotment of gas. Perhaps it failed the leader admin check (I moved DR a bit to get it on the same stack as the HQ for this post). Perhaps it is just the way it is in Blizzard (T28). Air resupply is one option a commander has to improve the supply state of the units independently of what the AI provides. HQBU is the other option, but it is more of a sledgehammer to what would be a one liner in a concept of operations paragraphs. So the commander is unable to tell the AI to make sure a specific corps is gassed up and ready (other than the expensive HQBU). Air resupply gives the commander gets a little more control over logistics even if it is applied in situations that do not make sense. In this case I could fly some gas up from the aircraft sitting on the rail near Vyazma to the units sitting on the rail near Borodino. The capability to supply XXXXVI corps is realistic even if the mechanism is less so.

So the air supply feature gives the commander tool to impact supply. An alternate supply prioritization/allocation scheme might be desirable, but would be complex to create and validate.

What I have not seen is an analysis that shows too much overall supply is delivered forward in 1941. Reading the AARs and my experience indicates that the amount of overall supply delivered forward is about right: just enough to keep attacking most of the time. Some of it may be delivered "oddly".



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Simbelmude
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RE: Air supply - singing the can't get no gas blues

Post by Simbelmude »

And yet this "odd" way of supplying your units is hardly satisfying in from a sumulationist perspective, as it corresponds to absolutely nothing at all in real history. Heinkel 111 did not shower armoured spearheads advancing at full speed with jerrycans.
I'm begging for a fix that would make units eligible for air supply only if they have not moved yet and forfeit their mps for the turn (a it like HQBU). Air resupply is a continuous process (the planes don't deliver the whole amount in one single drop) and was only attempted, when attempted, for static units (Bastogne, Demyansk, Stalingrad). Also, I woould probably add that they have to be in some sort of critical supply position, and not sitting on a fully supplied regular railroad.
Yet, I agree that the game could benefit from a limited way of prioritizing supply to certain units, a button (such as refit, etc) that would grant them something like up to 10% above their regular allotment (with a truck cost, of course) depending on where they stand on the supply chain.
Mehring
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RE: Air supply - singing the can't get no gas blues

Post by Mehring »

Yes, supply prioritisation would be great, but only if it goes hand in hand with throughput limits based on infrastructure. A game that fails to distinguish between single and double track railways and abstracts roads to the point of not depicting them CANNOT represent logistics accurately.

Someone made the point that bombers would not be used to carry fuel, as I believe our American friends say, "period." Don't know, but apparently such use damages airframes.

The trouble with current German behaviour is that they can attack and attack and attack when historically they couldn't. Also they can crunch through defensive positions frontally and simply grind the Russians away. Some players clearly haven't realised this yet and fail to attack relentlessly and everywhere when, in game, they should. Whether this is a malfunction of logistics in itself, or of fatigue or something else or a combination of things I don't know. I'm sure the devs are on it.
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Flaviusx
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RE: Air supply - singing the can't get no gas blues

Post by Flaviusx »

It's not just the Germans, Mehring. It's whoever is on the offense. Sovs go energizer bunny by mid 43 and do the same thing. Not to mention the blizzard counteroffensive.

But everybody is fixated on 1941.
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Mehring
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RE: Air supply - singing the can't get no gas blues

Post by Mehring »

True, I've only played a couple of games beyond 1942.

As for 1st blizzard, I find that Russian armies do lose steam fairly quickly, as they should, and if the Germans have achieved historical damage during their offensive, there will be insufficient armies to replace/reinforce. If the Russians haven't been well shaven during the summer/autumn, that's another story.
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Seminole
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RE: Air supply - singing the can't get no gas blues

Post by Seminole »

Even though XXXXVI Pz.Korps is sitting on the rail, this turn it did not get a good allotment of gas.

Even sitting on rail, you're contending with the Axis Rail Modifier, which for that date and location put your effective supply at .805 of normal
20.4.3.2. AXIS RAIL SUPPLY MODIFIER
There is a modifier that is applied to the delivery of supply to Axis HQ units and combat
units based on the date and the location of the unit that is tracing supply. The modifier, once
calculated, is multiplied times the supplies and fuel being delivered to the unit. The modifier is
equal to ((168 + (5 times the number of months from December 1941, but not to be a negative
number)/weather adjustment) - x coordinate of unit)) + ((y coordinate of unit -69)/2))/100. This
modifier can never be less than .33 or greater than 1.0. The weather adjustment is equal to
1 in clear weather, 2 in mud or snow, and 3 in blizzard.

So as an example, your unit (X100, Y47)) in December 1941 in blizzard weather will have its fuel/supplies deliveries multiplied by ((168+((0)/3)-100)) + ((47-69/2))/100 or 80.5/100 or .805. So, due to this rule, the delivery of supplies and fuel to the unit in 100,47 would be reduced to only 80.5 percent of what they otherwise would have been.

Combine that with this rule:
22.3.4. FIRST WINTER SUPPLY MODIFIER
Axis units tracing supply to a railhead in the affected area (22.3) will have the amount of supply they receive halved after all other modifications.

Now you're looking at 40% delivery to that hex, at that date, not counting any other leadership checks involved.
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
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