Totally Disgruntling the Vet. The Pro's v DV -DV welcome

[sillyflower]

This will be a fairly straight AAR as all my best trash talk and pictures are on Hitman's AAR, and there's no point trash talking someone who isn't allowed to read this

HRs: no bombing on HQs not on a combat unit, no paradrops to break pockets and victory determined by date of fall of Berlin compared to historical date as this gives Germans something to play for in later game.

Traditional 1st turn by DV, though he used a lot of bombers to drop fuel rather than to bomb airfields so red Airforce lost only 405 a/c on the ground and most of the almost 1200 losses seem to be self inflicted in training missions or something.

Sean and I are doing our usual split. I take north of the mid map dotted line (no move line for minor allies) and overall command whilst he takes south + airforce. The 1 disadvantage of split command is that I send fewer of his units north than I would playing solo. We do remain flexible though and thereby don't have boundary issues. Translation: I nick his stuff. Plays to our strengths as I like nickel and dime defence more than he does, but he's more swashbuckling and attacky than I am under that polite Canadian exterior.

Aims - don't lose Moscow or Rostov and have 6M+ strong army with good morale for the blizzard. I'm not bothered about L'grad. After all, we like a long game and only Smokin Dave has lasted beyond Oct 42 when I've played as Russians. I don't count Michael T for this purpose as it was me who did not last.......... and I want another go with model 2.0. I can't see german who doesn't take any of L,M or R in '41 lasting that long against a good Russian. I know Terje did but his opponent did not play well in '42.

To achieve these aims means losing a minimum of divisions in pockets.

[smokindave34]

Will Sean be making an appearance in this AAR? We finall get to look behind the curtain and see how the Pro's manage the Red army. Good luck!

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Will Sean be making an appearance in this AAR? We finall get to look behind the curtain and see how the Pro's manage the Red army. Good luck!

If you all keep very still and don't frighten him with trash talk, he may come out. After all, he has well over 1000 posts to his name

[sillyflower]

Back to T1

This needs to be a busier turn than may appear. All the 203mm howitzer and 280mm siege mortar units need to go down to 50% TOE to stop the AI wasting large amounts of arms point in later turns and most of the airforce needs to be put in reserve. I disband the 203mm units over time when I have spare AP as they form the backbone of breakthrough arty xx if the game gets that far.

Some can be left depending on damage done by LW on T!, but most benefit from being rested and sorted out with long range bombers put on VVS airbases to try to get those partisans active ASAP. Sean usually puts all the reasonable units back in action ASAP ie in T2 and T3.

I also disband every motorcycle regt I can whenever I can as they are useless arms point hogs. I hunt them down relentlessly in the HQ screen. I also disband fortified zones to avoid them surrendering to the enemy. They are full of decent troop types which will cost a lot to replace and turn into Hiwis because the wretched things always surrender.

HQs also need to have support levels adjusted to centralise the SUs for later redistribution to the armies that need them. The only SUs I buy in 41 are sappers and RR brigades, and rarely the odd RVGK arty unit if there are guns in stock. A good blizzard offensive needs 60+ RR brigades and a girl can never have too many shoes, handbags or sappers. Sean and I have almost 600 in late 44 vs Smokin Dave.

[sillyflower]

The economy

Arms points come first. Unless the German gets their skates on it is easy to keep 330+ which is more than enough so you never run out. Remember factory groups get a 1.3 multiplier in '42 so a group of 4 become worth 5 (4x1.3 rounded down) but 3 remains 3 (3.9 rounded down) so only evacuate the 3s if you have spare rail. I tend to try to rail a/c and tank factories I need to early. I usually rail 1 point only unless I have spare. Even then by june '42 you will have more tanks than you know what to do with. If I have spare will rail out full Li2 (never the bomber version) and IL2s if I can get them out early before they grow too big and expensive.

Not being able to stop useless U2 production is annoying so what is ( I think) my only really gamey trick is to rail 1 point of all the U2 bombers and half of the others to where German has to capture them next turn. I also move 1 point the Zis 3 factory as soon as it's about to go into production. I can't see any point in paying 1 AP for a battery of 4 that never upgrades. Somme may rightly think this is pointless, but I don't like wasting resources on building cr#p.

I always try to rail out every truck factory as trucks are the only perennial equipment shortage.

I know some Russians have run out of supplies when the have large armies but too few HI. I do therefore try to save some if there is spare rail going. No idea if that has ever saved the day but have never had supply problems other than those caused by truck shortages. Sean and I have worked out how to solve/mitigate the truck problem. Some of that we have to keep to ourselves but others have written good posts on this subject..

[821Bobo]

I usually en mass the armaments points. Does the multiplier count fragmented arms production as one factory or not? eg. is there difference between having 20 arms in one factory and having it like 3+3+4+10?

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

I usually en mass the armaments points. Does the multiplier count fragmented arms production as one factory or not? eg. is there difference between having 20 arms in one factory and having it like 3+3+4+10?

Yes. The multiplier is for each individual factory and it is ROUNDED DOWN.

20*1.3 = 26

(3*1.3=3.9=3)+ (3*1.3=3.9=3)+ (4*1.3=5.2=5)+(10*1.3=13)= 24
(note lets say u only had evac'ed 9 instead of 10 as the last factory, then u had lost another 2 points for a total of 22 vs 26.)

Note the difference between evacing a 3 and 4 HI factory. 3 vs 5 as final production or 60% more when the 1.3 multiplier applies, while the transport cost is only 1/3 higher.


Kind regards,

Rasmus

[821Bobo]

great, then I was doing it wrong two and half year

anyway thanks

[Walloc]

If its any comforts im pretty sure u not the only one. IMHO its not one of the strong points of WiTE. System as it is sets ppl up to "fail". Why IMO needlessly complicate stuff like that by having the modifier not be global, but instead individual. Caters only to nutjobs(read me) that has the time and energy to set down and do the math and doesnt help the learning curve any bit and for what reason?

Vent over,

Rasmus

[sillyflower]

To separate the numerate goats/geeks like us from the thoughtless sheep.

[sillyflower]

Now for the maps which I do not know how to shrink or tie together



The NKVD div top left was able to sneak back and recapture Ventspils as the SS had done their usual bonehead charge and left it open. Sadly there were no port facilities left so I wasn't sure if the units would be in suplly enough to keep the ZOC corridor open. I therefore tried to ensure they were spaced 3 hexes apart to try to keep hexes remaining in Soviet control where possible. From watching the 'end turn' hex conversion they seemed to which will slow his inf nicely. Otherwise a solid start by DV supporting AGN with another PzK .

[sillyflower]

The middle
Solid pockets but fell slightly short of Minsk leaving me more units to play with than I had expected.



Surprisingly DV did not try to take Brest Litovsk. I'm not sure if that's a good idea as it meant he couldn't use the clearest terrain following the railroad which probably contributed to the slightly shorter advance to Minsk.

[sillyflower]

standard solid South but some careless HQ placements. We have no bombing of HQs on their own but Sean is quite aggressive in game so don't be taken in by his forum manner. He just loves displacing HQ and RR units

[Michael T]

I fear DV is cooked already. Too many Soviets have escaped. Against the Pro's one needs a very good start.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I fear DV is cooked already. Too many Soviets have escaped. Against the Pro's one needs a very good start.

Yes I agree not good at all.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I fear DV is cooked already. Too many Soviets have escaped. Against the Pro's one needs a very good start.

Yes I agree not good at all.

MT and Pelton agreeing????????????

I must go and have a lie down to recover.

We have just returned T2 to him but I won't post the pictures until we get his T3. T2 was not great for him. He posted in his earlier AAR that he was an 'opportunistic attacker'. That is not the best approach for a German in '41. It could be seen as an homage to history as it was Hitler's own approach but we know how that ended up.

[sillyflower]

T2 reveal



Hard to see with all DV's recon but he has 1 pz and 1 mot across Dvna near bottom of map. The Russians behind them are in supply ( another broken pocket and the Germans are a long way from theirs so I can't see them going anwhre next turn.

Still quite a lot of Russian territory between his panzers and inf si north in good shape

[sillyflower]

The gallant defenders of Minsk not only survive but help to isolate a pz div. No real sign of a big thrust by AGC with the panzers somewhat sacatterd middle



A clearer picture of the AGN?AGC boundary without the attacks on. I don't know why so many of my opponents like to hurl their mobile troops into the worst terrain they can find. Probably because it looks the least well defended.

[sillyflower]

south



Belphegor excels himself cutting off 24 pz corps and wreaking havoc with DV's main supply line just to north of Lvov pocket.. This will set his rail line back at least 1 turn. Soviets stay put in the northern section and advance Eastwards in the south to entice his panzers away from their supplies. Not expecting PzG 1 to swing north to help their co-workers out as it's quite a way. Happy if they do.

[sillyflower]

All in all, not a great start by DV. He's made some expensive unforced errors particularly in the south, which will slow him and will make it easier for me to nick some of Sean's units. Playing as a team makes me leave more in the south than I would otherwise, but that disadvantage is outweighed with the advantages of team play.