possible not-wanted issue with LCU behaviour in latest beta

[GreyJoy]

Hi all,

now with the latest beta units without supplies Always retreats despite not being pushed back and despite still having consistent AV.

Just an example:

3 Chinese Corps fight against 2 IJA Divisions.
The Japs attack and get a 1-2 and the chinese suffer very few losses.
However the fighting sucks a lot of supplies and 2 of those 3 Chinese Corps, at the end of the combat phase, remain with 0 supply.
Now, even if they won the battle and probably will recieve some supplies next turn, the gets disorganized and retreat towards the closest city, suffering 99 distruption and quite a lot of disablement but, more important, they do leave the only corp in supply alone, thus exposing it to the next day enemy attack.

I don't think this behaviour (which changes completely the land war, especially in China) was wanted when Micheal made that change.

Am i wrong?

[Andy Mac]

No that is not the intent

[GreyJoy]

witps suggested me to place a save file here... unfortunately i don't have it right now.
but it's pretty easy to test it. Simply place several units without supply in an hex and then move in even a small enemy units. Your defending army with no supplies, even if it has 10x the AVs of the other side, will fall back disorganized.
As soon as i get a good save file i'll post it

[michaelm75au]

Which beta is this happening on?
The latest betas did:
1. 0 AV units kept retreating. Fixed so as not to always retreat.
2. Isolated units out of supply can lose more devices to disabled.
None of the changes caused units to specifically retreat (except for point 1).
I would need a save showing this behavior to comment more.

[seille]

Same problem.
Sadly no response by the devs so far.

tm.asp?m=3353494

Had hoped to get a explanation for that unit behaviour at least to be prepared for the next time.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Which beta is this happening on?
The latest betas did:
1. 0 AV units kept retreating. Fixed so as not to always retreat.
2. Isolated units out of supply can lose more devices to disabled.
None of the changes caused units to specifically retreat (except for point 1).
I would need a save showing this behavior to comment more.

Hi Micheal,

is the very latest published beta. the "m" one.

Here's the replay file.
This is a copy and paste from the ops report

"50th Chinese Corps isolated with no supply!
9th Prov Chinese Corps isolated with no supply!
70th Chinese Corps isolated with no supply!
78th Chinese Corps isolated with no supply!
94th Chinese Corps isolated with no supply!
9th War Area isolated with no supply!
29th Group Army isolated with no supply!
1st Artillery Regiment isolated with no supply!
73rd Chinese/A Corps isolated with no supply!
73rd Chinese/B Corps isolated with no supply!
73rd Chinese/C Corps isolated with no supply!"

This army was occupying an hex without any enemy. Then, during the reply, the enemy entered into the hex and all these guys simply retreated, without fighting, suffering HUGE losses, with some of the corps getting disorganized status (mind you, they weren't disorganized before the enemy arrived).

[GreyJoy]

This is how they appeared the next day, after the retreat to Chikkiang

[GreyJoy]

And this is the day before.

I think, Michealm, that it's a combination of the 2 above mentioned changements. A unit now, which is out of supply, cannot stand in front of an enemy in the same hex

[michaelm75au]

The "isolation/no supply/enemy present in better numbers" test in the post combat phase is suppose to be 'can the unit retreat' not 'that it should retreat'. Added in 1123m.
If it can't retreat, fatigue goes up and morale/experience down.

The test case I was using must have had some differences that didn't always trigger the 'retreat' check.

[michaelm75au]

Correct retreat test in supply phase
---

Updated beta to try out until I can get installer built. Just unzip into beta directory

[GreyJoy]

Thank you Micheal! You're the BEST!!!!!