Base not sending out supplies

[skarp]

Hi

508 Bn are desperately defending the Nijmegen crossings but are virtually out of ammo. Regular requests have been sent but they are just stacking up at the the regimental base - all 155 suspended! The base is half full. All supply lines are good even for units closely engaged. Bug or is there something I don't understand?

Thanks

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: skarp

Hi

508 Bn are desperately defending the Nijmegen crossings but are virtually out of ammo. Regular requests have been sent but they are just stacking up at the the regimental base - all 155 suspended! The base is half full. All supply lines are good even for units closely engaged. Bug or is there something I don't understand?

Thanks

Scheduled resupply events take place at 0600 and 1800.

It appears you're 24 game minutes from the next one.

[dazkaz15]

Its still puzzling as to why there are so many suspended routine re-supplies I think?
No emergency ones though so I take it your men still have ammunition?

[skarp]

dazkaz15 - one unit has been out of everything except .45 cal for hours and hours, all the accompanying mortar units have no rounds either.

jimcarravallah Well playing on it's now 19.51 and it's just received a niggardly 600 or so .30 cal. Base is still half full. I think the commander wants shooting!

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: skarp

dazkaz15 - one unit has been out of everything except .45 cal for hours and hours, all the accompanying mortar units have no rounds either.

jimcarravallah Well playing on it's now 19.51 and it's just received a niggardly 600 or so .30 cal. Base is still half full. I think the commander wants shooting!

The pauses at 0600 and 1800 are calculating availability of supplies at the base, demands from units, and the ability to retrieve them from the base or push them to the unit by the base.

The shortfall could be a lack of available supplies at the base to support all the demands on that base (probably not the situation if the base is still half full of the needed material), lack of available transport to deliver everything needed to every unit at the same time (most likely situation), the loss of some percentage of the supplies from the transport columns (evidenced by the "column lost XX%" messages), or a constrained flow from available SEPs to the base(s) (least likely if the base is still half full).

All reflect the reality of battlefield supply management, which is why the game is so rich in terms of experiencing true operational level combat.

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: jimcarravallah

ORIGINAL: skarp

dazkaz15 - one unit has been out of everything except .45 cal for hours and hours, all the accompanying mortar units have no rounds either.

jimcarravallah Well playing on it's now 19.51 and it's just received a niggardly 600 or so .30 cal. Base is still half full. I think the commander wants shooting!

The pauses at 0600 and 1800 are calculating availability of supplies at the base, demands from units, and the ability to retrieve them from the base or push them to the unit by the base.

The shortfall could be a lack of available supplies at the base to support all the demands on that base (probably not the situation if the base is still half full of the needed material), lack of available transport to deliver everything needed to every unit at the same time (most likely situation), the loss of some percentage of the supplies from the transport columns (evidenced by the "column lost XX%" messages), or a constrained flow from available SEPs to the base(s) (least likely if the base is still half full).

All reflect the reality of battlefield supply management, which is why the game is so rich in terms of experiencing true operational level combat.

Forgot to add that the supply event deliveries are also a relic of a World War II through modern day battlefields.

There's a huge tail to tooth penalty to provide enough rear services to implement "instant supply" even on a modern battlefield where instant communications reduce the administrative delay time between the discovery of need until that need collated into a demand, and the demand is broadcast to a supply source.

The more assets devoted to speedy or more frequent supply deliveries (trucks, troops, fuel, etc.) the less is available for the front line troops to fight (particularly in terms of troops and fuel).

[dazkaz15]

There is definitely something wrong with that depot.

It should be sending out emergency supply columns, and I can't see any reason why there are so many suspended routine either.
Has it only just finished a move that took a long time, or has been under fire or bombardment?
That's the only reason I can think of.

If it has been in location for a while, and the Depot is not under fire or bombardment, I think you should Send a save of the game to Dave support@panthergames.com he might be able to take a look at it when he gets time.

[skarp]

I'm inclined to think there's something wrong - emergency requests for supplies are apparently being treated as routine and even then not much is happening. I've played on through day 3 and virtually nothing has arrived - less than 1000 .30 at one point as mentioned - quickly expended. Somehow the unit's held on with literally nothing despite repeated attacks so doesn't seem to matter. Meanwhile division base is stuffed to overflowing.

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: skarp

I'm inclined to think there's something wrong - emergency requests for supplies are apparently being treated as routine and even then not much is happening. I've played on through day 3 and virtually nothing has arrived - less than 1000 .30 at one point as mentioned - quickly expended. Somehow the unit's held on with literally nothing despite repeated attacks so doesn't seem to matter. Meanwhile division base is stuffed to overflowing.

The base may be at an overflowing capacity because it doesn't have enough shipping and handling capacity to meet all the demands.

Constraints on getting a full ammo supply shipment to a unit include the total demand for supplies from all units in the regiment, how much ammo can be included with basics and fuel which also need to be shipped, the payload capacity for the vehicles available to deliver all those supplies, the handling capacity hours available to load and unload the vehicle shipments at each end of the supply chain, and the distances that need to be traversed to reach each unit.

[skarp]

82 base may well be busy but as the original post shows 508 base is not. The fact is F 2/508 (and other units) are making multiple requests for emergency resupply and they're not being registered as emergency requests.

I've sent a copy of game to support. Anyone else like a copy let me know.

[skarp]

15 hours later the base is still doing nowt

[dazkaz15]

Just noticed you are using quite an old version of the game.
The latest game version is 4.5.264
You should update to the latest version to see if this is still a problem.

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: skarp

82 base may well be busy but as the original post shows 508 base is not. The fact is F 2/508 (and other units) are making multiple requests for emergency resupply and they're not being registered as emergency requests.

I've sent a copy of game to support. Anyone else like a copy let me know.

According to the baseline scenario for All American over Nijmegen, at best the 508 Base has 22 1/4-ton Jeeps and six motor scooters potentially available to haul supplies. There are no other motorized assets in the regiment, so the Jeeps and motor scooters are the only potential transport available to meet all demands by dispersed units for fuel, basics, and ammo. The Jeeps can each haul 363 KG of supplies (roughly .4 tons American).

If all 18 combat and headquarters units in the regiment are on the ground and putting in demands for supplies, it means everyone could get .4-tons of basics, fuel, and ammo and four could get roughly .8 tons in a delivery cycle if all the jeeps are fully operational and dispatched at the same instant.

Doesn't take into account the delivery time (there's a delay between the time a request is sent and a loaded vehicle can traverse between a base and a requesting unit and a delay time before the unit can be used again while it travels empty back to the base) or the time necessary to package, load, and unload the supplies at the supply packaging and delivery points (it appears the game standard is one hour per vehicle if sufficient handling manhours are available at the time of packaging supplies at the base and arrival at the delivery point).

Units can demand all the supplies they want with emergency orders, but unless they have transport necessary to pull requisitioned supplies from the base (and the estabs show airborne regiments only had organic motorized transport assigned to the base), or the base's available (capable of performing the delivery mission) transport assets are bogged down by too many demands, the delivery system doesn't perform as desired.

As far as all those emergency requests go, I told people at work that when they made everything they did an emergency, nothing was an emergency. Same applies in combat when the emergency is created by consuming quicker than replenishment rates can backfill that consumption.

Send me your save so I can look into those issues.

[dazkaz15]

I have done a fast run through of the scenario with the latest patch 4.5.264, and had no issue with the supply, other than that the SEP got over run by the enemy [:'(]

Regardless the emergency, and routine supply requests worked perfectly ok up to that point, so I strongly suggest upgrading to the latest patch that can me found in the members section, as I think it will sort out your problem.

[dazkaz15]

A later image from the same game session.

Notice how the ammo is in a critical state for those that are not in supply, but fine for those that are.
Also note that the supply columns have been shot up, and some suspended as a result of not having a clear supply route.

I would say that supply is working very well in this version of the game.

[skarp]

Thanks for the input - I'm surprised I don't have the latest patch - I only bought the game 3 weeks ago.

[skarp]

I've only been able to find 4.4.263 not 4.5.264 but what the heck everything is suddenly fine and my forward companies have stacks of ammo [:D] many thanks to dazkaz15 for spotting this.

jimcarravallah - thanks for patiently explaining the ins and outs of real life supply. I did understand - it was the supply side that attracted me to this game (though I bought the original RDOA when it came out), my point was that the job of the commander is to decide where the maximum effort is to be made and to ensure it gets the necessary resources - in this case 508 only 3 or 4 companies mixing it with the enemy and it should have been a no-brainer where to concentrate efforts - as the new patch amply demonstrates I hope [8D]

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: skarp

I've only been able to find 4.4.263 not 4.5.264 but what the heck everything is suddenly fine and my forward companies have stacks of ammo [:D] many thanks to dazkaz15 for spotting this.

jimcarravallah - thanks for patiently explaining the ins and outs of real life supply. I did understand - it was the supply side that attracted me to this game (though I bought the original RDOA when it came out), my point was that the job of the commander is to decide where the maximum effort is to be made and to ensure it gets the necessary resources - in this case 508 only 3 or 4 companies mixing it with the enemy and it should have been a no-brainer where to concentrate efforts - as the new patch amply demonstrates I hope [8D]

All those "ins and outs of real life supply" are modeled in the game.

If all those aspects (stocks on hand, total demands, transport available, distances between stockpiles and demand location, and handling at loading and unloading sites) aren't reviewed first when a problem appears, there remains an ambiguity between suffering a breakdown in operations (shooting bullets quicker than they can be replenished) or the software as the cause of the supply problem.

US Airborne units landed in an isolated zone were particularly vulnerable to supply problems because of the limited stocks dropped with the troops, limited ground transport landed with the troops, the dispersal distances from a static supply entry point to bases, and bases to combat troops, and the problematic air drop delivery system to the supply entry point.

The constraints only get mitigated when a land supply route is created from a map edge SEP to an airborne base unit.

None of the map shots appeared to have a map edge land supply route open to the airborne unit bases.

[Phoenix100]

It's not that simple, Jim - that we should just treat everything as a part of wonderfully modelled reality. If that's the default approach then we'll never be able to tease out what is intentional and what is a bug. This supply problem has been mentioned many times before, I think, by myself included. Can you also send me a save Skarp (peter.winship@skynet.be)? Be interested to see if it's the same prob as I've had. You shouldn't be having to wait until 6 and 1800 anyway, if emergency resupply is requested.

Did you check what transport was available, however - how many trucks the base has left? It's a common problem in this scenario, I've found, that all your trucks get attrited until you've none left to send forward, even though you have stockpiles. Check the E&S tab for the base.

[skarp]

hi Phoenix - thanks but it is all sorted. The upgrade did the trick and whenever I load an old save the problem has magically disappeared with the effected units instantly bursting with plenty of ammo to hurl at the Germans. I'm now replaying through from mid afternoon day two (when I first noticed to problem) to see if the entrenched companies can do the trick of holding the southern end until XXX corps arrive. So far so good. [:)]