Disbanding expensive infantry transports

[Lokesz]

Infantry transports can hardly be worth the cost! Even simple trucks makes refitting the unit twice as expensive and the transports also expend fuel.

While transport makes it possible to reach the front a bit earlier, it makes little difference on the battlefield. Basic infantry moves 6 hexes on road and is then able to fire. A transport that moves further is prone to attacks, so it is most of the time safer to move only in 'blue' hexes: also 6 hexes on road. To make things worse, the unit still uses fuel. Sometimes it is even necessary to spent resources to refit the unit with fuel. The sods won't even park there trucks and walk, oh no ... lazy bunch ... And all the time the basic infantry walks to the other side of the map with 6 hexes every turn.

The first thing I would like to do is to improve my motorized infantry and refit them with boots. Sadly it is not possible to disband only the transport. When I select the 'no transport' icon, the 'improve' button is disabled.

At the moment I just use up the motorized infantry and disband them. I hardly think this is realistic. In the beginning of the Russian war, speed was essential. In this phase the units on foot should be too slow to fight along tanks and motorized infantry. They should only be able to protect against counterattack and to mop up strongpoints that are bypassed by the faster units.

I use walking soldiers to spearhead the invasion in Russia. Cost effective but not authentic I'm afraid.

[PKH]

I agree it should be possible to remove vehicles from infantry units. Motorized are just too expensive use.

Movement rates for motorized units should be much higher I think. Both to be more realistic and to make them worthwhile. I would expect trucks to go at around ~40km/h on roads. With current movement rates (11) that's less than 1.5 hours of driving.

[Lokesz]

I like to play with different kinds of transport, but the GaW campaign punishes you for using them. It should make normal infantry a lot more effective but it doesn't.

A simple calculation:
The road speed of panzer IV is 42 km: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_IV . Humans on foot do 5 km. The ingame speed of panzer IV is 14 hexes. So infantry on foot should do 1.67 hexes on road.

Lets take rounded figures: 2 hexes on road and 1 hex through forest and hills. That would make trucks a lot more sensible option.

[Ronald Wendt]

Hello,

when we discuss speed here, it is essential to see that GaW uses the marching distance per day, not the km/h. Remember we are talking units not single machines or men. During beta we discussed this, too and if any unit type is not fast enough, its the tanks. But the 90 Miles stated here were not a standard value that was achieved every day. Here is a table to compare:

German Panzer Divion Range in game 14 Fields 70 Km 43 Miles; Reality: 90 Miles
German Regular Division Range in game 6 Fields 30 Km 18 Miles; Reality: 20 Miles
German Motorized Division Range in game 11 Fields 55 Km 34 Miles; Reality: 30 Miles


The option to abandon vehicles is another thing - we will consider this for one of the next versions.

Regards,

[PKH]

According to "German Military Vehicles of World War II: An Illustrated Guide to Cars, Trucks, ..." by Jean-Denis Lepage (and U.S. intelligence reports from 1943 with similar numbers):


Infantry divisions should march at 3 miles per hour, so maybe 20-30 miles per day in good conditions.
A Motorized division could maintain an average of 90-150 miles per day, and armored divisions 60-90 miles per day.

[Ronald Wendt]

Hello,

ORIGINAL: PKH

A Motorized division could maintain an average of 90-150 miles per day, and armored divisions 60-90 miles per day.

this might be true in theory, but the reports we have read show that in the reality of the Eastern Front it was not achievable.
In one famous incident the Germans rushed(!) to Dünaburg, our sources state they covered 200 miles in 100 hours. Simplified it means 50 miles per day - note : in a rush.
Thats still 10 miles less than the minimum stated in your source.

The mot. units could still us some more range, but those values above don't reflect reality. We are considering to increment it for the next version.

Regards,

[Lokesz]

ORIGINAL: Ronald Wendt
The option to abandon vehicles is another thing - we will consider this for one of the next versions.

That would be kind of a workaround. In fact I like pondering over the best types of transport for my units. My real problem is that replacements for transport are too expensive for its effectiveness. For that amount of resources I can have twice the firepower. Does the Opel Blitz truck really have the same value as the 8 soldiers it is carrying?

I'll try a suggestion. The infantry isn't loaded on trucks when they go fighting. Why does the game assume the trucks are destroyed? If they are shot at when loaded on transport, than you loose vehicles. Ok. But not when the soldiers fight in a building or a ditch.

Don't charge resources for trucks that aren't destroyed and there is already a lot more incentive for motorized infantry.

[PKH]

n one famous incident the Germans rushed(!) to Dünaburg, our sources state they covered 200 miles in 100 hours. Simplified it means 50 miles per day - note : in a rush.

I expect that is the initial rush towards the dvina at the start of barbarossa as mentioned in "Operation Barbarossa 1941 (2): Army Group North". Firstly, I'm sure this includes the initial battles and any battles on the way. 2nd panzer army spent around the same time to reach Minsk from it's starting positions which is about the same distance. Secondly, the road quality in this forested marshy area were probably not the best. Differing road quality is maybe something which could be added to the game.

What should be the starting point is how far they can move on dry roads without engagements.