Hey Guys!:)
I have a question and do forigve me if it is in the manual. I have seearched but my brain is a bit fried (2 week old girl keeps me up. Mom's looks and Dad's appetite!). I understand that in a battle (PBEM game is my particular interest) one side gets air superiority and only they can buy air support craft (I'd love to know if there was a way both could get them). Is the chance of getting the air superiority 50/50? Or is it based on the time period and who the two combatants are? I am playing a hypothetical campaign of US vs. Russia from 1940-1949.
As the Russian so far (We are mid 1942 now) I am not seeing
where I am getting the chance to buy those strike aircraft.
Those P-35's are annoying! God help me when he gets the more potent stuff! I see I get some gecent aircraft as well but I want to know if I will ever see them!
While I am here I suppose I should ask about playing the Russians. I am having some problems. I have this T-34 which
has good armor and a good gun but darn if I can hit a thing with them when you move them. If I stay still arty suppresses me and then I have all these American engineers doing nasty things to me. I've been relying on a mostly armor force backed by 203mm arty and some FO's. In 40-41 my inf ran faster than my armor so I have been very light on inf though I have found cavalry to be effective at times. Any suggestions on force balance with the Russians? At most I'm dealing with 2000-4000 points depending on the type of battle so if I try to buy a little of everything I end up with a "little" of everything. Any general/specific suggestions welcome!
Thanks all,
Robert
Air superiority and Russian Tactics
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
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Gary Tatro
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: MA, US
In a PBEM game
Air superiority is a fictional thing. The two players playing will decide who should get it through an agreement. Usually it is just decided that both sides get 2 sections of air craft or some other such number. What can happen in this situation is that the weather or visibility does not allow for air operations.
"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"
Buried somewhere in the manual is a statement that talks about how severely a unit is penalized when it tries to fire after it moves. Siad sit still for 2 turns if you want to hit anything. Also Russian units were inferior in fire control for the most part, due to several reasons. Thats why it's so hard to hit anything. Closer is better if you are a Russian.
Jim1954
KMC/T
Re: Air superiority and Russian Tactics
In the PREFERENCES screen you can manually set the number of air section for both side, but be aware of the weather.Originally posted by rjharvey
...
I understand that in a battle (PBEM game is my particular interest) one side gets air superiority and only they can buy air support craft (I'd love to know if there was a way both could get them). Is the chance of getting the air superiority 50/50?
I weather is clear (1) you can buy for sure and use air strike; if the weather is not (1, clear) you are not sure you can buy airstrike.
(BTW when you buy your force look in the misc screen, you'll find aircraft only here, if the are available).
PS
congratulation for your Baby!
"Violence is the last resource of incompetents". (I. Asimov)
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Scharfschütze
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Germany
Okay, let me think...
Winning with the russians is possible, sometimes even easy, since they have a lot of worthwhile stuff, namely
-the 12,7mm DShk HMG
I always pick it as the platoon MG and purchase a few extra if I can. Unlike the smaller calibres and, sadly, the MG42, this one is dangerous to all AFVs. With luck, and persistence, you can immoblize a Tiger with a lucky suspension hit. Rare, don´t count on it, but it happens. Meanwhile, HT´s are worthy targets, as are infatry. This MG can harass infantry and crewed guns at 30+ ranges and will sometimes inflict good casualities via splash damage. A must have!
Also, this HMG can be used in the second wave of button-up fire, the first constitutes of fire from
- the PTRD AT-rifle
Again, this piece might also immoblize any AFV. Their main use is, however, beginning the suppression of an enemy AFV you plan to engage. These ATR-teams are very hard to spot, and can deliver accurate fires at 5-8 hexes that will destroy and therefor drive off Halftracks and force AFVs to go to "buttoned", much reducing their spotting and opfire abilities. Remember the second phase are the 12,7mm HMGs.
- BT-7 and BA-10
The BT-7 is a light tank, and its 45mm gun isn´t good at range and won´t penetrate most AFVs armour. From the front. Since I already mentioned that it is inaccurate at longer ranges, you have to go for a side or rear shot at close range. Possible when the target is under fire by unspotted PTRDs and DShks. The BA-10 is an armoured car, with high speed, weak armour but carrying the same 45mm gun. Mix them 1:1, buy one light tank for every T-34, and a great many opportunities show up. A continous attack by a concentrated force of BT-7´s and BA-10´s can exhaust the enemies defensive capabilities (i.e. opfire) in a given sector and allow you to bring quite a lot of firepower to bear on defenceless units. Just make sure to vanquish everyone in LOS to avoid retaliation;).
A final point: Even when the 45mm is useless for sideshots ( beginning in 1944), there sure are a great many halftracks, armoured cars and whatelse around to be shot. Which you then won´t have to care about with a real AFV. Think about it.
- T-34
Since the soviet heavy tanks and heavy TDs all lack sufficient AP ammo for their 122mm+ guns, it is wiser to attack with T34-85´s, and snipe with SU-100s.
The slow ROF of the large guns makes them difficult to use and disadvantages them heavily during overwatch and also on the offense. Stick to the medium tanks, and expect to loose some.
Earlier in the war, the T-34´s are miracle machines. Don´t duel with the Germans. Shoot up enemy AFVs where the BT-7s and BA-10s have broken through. Stay just behind them. When the enemy tries to counterattack, he will hopefully move into their opfire. And even if that misses, a T-34 is a formidable target, and not easily conquered by a surprised enemy.
Otherwise, you will have their powerful guns nearby to take down any counterattackers in your next turn without having to move too far.
- ATG´s
The 57mm ATG is excellent. As is the classic 76,2mm and later the 100mm. Buy them. ATGs are very useful for suppression fire, just try to keep them hidden!
- Artillery
The 76,2mm FH (onboard) is a nice light howitzer that doubles as an ATG. Check it out!
Far cheaper are 76,2mm howitzers in the offboard bty. These deliver an average of 5 lanes of four impacts. That means guaranteed suppression in the target area. Go for a 0.4 delay and you have an area ready for assault, especially if you went for point targets with a 120mm or the terrific 160mm mortar. The latter carries a warhead more destructive than a BM-13 Katyusha rocket...
Those Kats are nice for prep bombing, too, but must be protected from enemy infiltrators. If you expect your opponent to use CAS, don´t buy them. They are easy meat for aircraft and too expensive to lose quickly.
In small games, the 50mm mortar is one, if not the, best of its class. It has a voracious appetite, though, and might require a source of additional ammo...
- The Shturmovik
Wow.
The baddest attack plane there is. It´s armour value of whatever/2 (and it is the second number that is important here!) indicates that it will return for a new sortie many, many times (with "0" meaning it will appear only once, "1" it will return a few times).
If your opponent has little or no AAA, he will watch helplessly as you strafe his troops again and again.
- Paratroops
Watch for the Tokarev!
- Partisans
Go for onboard artillery. If no worthwhile targets are present, scout and spy!
- Everything on the tanks
Load them with recons, PTRDs and 12,7mm DShks. To the brink. And have at least as many of these elsewhere. The larger pieces, even the SU-85, can carry up to 12 men. Put shock infantry, like Paratroopers or large SMG squads on these. A soviet force can gain surprising speed this way.
Winning with the russians is possible, sometimes even easy, since they have a lot of worthwhile stuff, namely
-the 12,7mm DShk HMG
I always pick it as the platoon MG and purchase a few extra if I can. Unlike the smaller calibres and, sadly, the MG42, this one is dangerous to all AFVs. With luck, and persistence, you can immoblize a Tiger with a lucky suspension hit. Rare, don´t count on it, but it happens. Meanwhile, HT´s are worthy targets, as are infatry. This MG can harass infantry and crewed guns at 30+ ranges and will sometimes inflict good casualities via splash damage. A must have!
Also, this HMG can be used in the second wave of button-up fire, the first constitutes of fire from
- the PTRD AT-rifle
Again, this piece might also immoblize any AFV. Their main use is, however, beginning the suppression of an enemy AFV you plan to engage. These ATR-teams are very hard to spot, and can deliver accurate fires at 5-8 hexes that will destroy and therefor drive off Halftracks and force AFVs to go to "buttoned", much reducing their spotting and opfire abilities. Remember the second phase are the 12,7mm HMGs.
- BT-7 and BA-10
The BT-7 is a light tank, and its 45mm gun isn´t good at range and won´t penetrate most AFVs armour. From the front. Since I already mentioned that it is inaccurate at longer ranges, you have to go for a side or rear shot at close range. Possible when the target is under fire by unspotted PTRDs and DShks. The BA-10 is an armoured car, with high speed, weak armour but carrying the same 45mm gun. Mix them 1:1, buy one light tank for every T-34, and a great many opportunities show up. A continous attack by a concentrated force of BT-7´s and BA-10´s can exhaust the enemies defensive capabilities (i.e. opfire) in a given sector and allow you to bring quite a lot of firepower to bear on defenceless units. Just make sure to vanquish everyone in LOS to avoid retaliation;).
A final point: Even when the 45mm is useless for sideshots ( beginning in 1944), there sure are a great many halftracks, armoured cars and whatelse around to be shot. Which you then won´t have to care about with a real AFV. Think about it.
- T-34
Since the soviet heavy tanks and heavy TDs all lack sufficient AP ammo for their 122mm+ guns, it is wiser to attack with T34-85´s, and snipe with SU-100s.
The slow ROF of the large guns makes them difficult to use and disadvantages them heavily during overwatch and also on the offense. Stick to the medium tanks, and expect to loose some.
Earlier in the war, the T-34´s are miracle machines. Don´t duel with the Germans. Shoot up enemy AFVs where the BT-7s and BA-10s have broken through. Stay just behind them. When the enemy tries to counterattack, he will hopefully move into their opfire. And even if that misses, a T-34 is a formidable target, and not easily conquered by a surprised enemy.
Otherwise, you will have their powerful guns nearby to take down any counterattackers in your next turn without having to move too far.
- ATG´s
The 57mm ATG is excellent. As is the classic 76,2mm and later the 100mm. Buy them. ATGs are very useful for suppression fire, just try to keep them hidden!
- Artillery
The 76,2mm FH (onboard) is a nice light howitzer that doubles as an ATG. Check it out!
Far cheaper are 76,2mm howitzers in the offboard bty. These deliver an average of 5 lanes of four impacts. That means guaranteed suppression in the target area. Go for a 0.4 delay and you have an area ready for assault, especially if you went for point targets with a 120mm or the terrific 160mm mortar. The latter carries a warhead more destructive than a BM-13 Katyusha rocket...
Those Kats are nice for prep bombing, too, but must be protected from enemy infiltrators. If you expect your opponent to use CAS, don´t buy them. They are easy meat for aircraft and too expensive to lose quickly.
In small games, the 50mm mortar is one, if not the, best of its class. It has a voracious appetite, though, and might require a source of additional ammo...
- The Shturmovik
Wow.
The baddest attack plane there is. It´s armour value of whatever/2 (and it is the second number that is important here!) indicates that it will return for a new sortie many, many times (with "0" meaning it will appear only once, "1" it will return a few times).
If your opponent has little or no AAA, he will watch helplessly as you strafe his troops again and again.
- Paratroops
Watch for the Tokarev!
- Partisans
Go for onboard artillery. If no worthwhile targets are present, scout and spy!
- Everything on the tanks
Load them with recons, PTRDs and 12,7mm DShks. To the brink. And have at least as many of these elsewhere. The larger pieces, even the SU-85, can carry up to 12 men. Put shock infantry, like Paratroopers or large SMG squads on these. A soviet force can gain surprising speed this way.
Thanks!
Wow!
Thanks for all the info! I am going to try... Well, all your suggestions! We are still in 1941 in our long fictional campaign (Me Russians againts the US) and morale and my inability to hit targets once I have moved has been causing me fits. Those MG's and atr's sound like just what I need to deal with the enemy ht's and cav that are causing me fits. I am looking forward to trying these idea's out. The soviets have had it a bit tough so far. Time for a change.
Thanks again for all the great suggestions!
Robert
Thanks for all the info! I am going to try... Well, all your suggestions! We are still in 1941 in our long fictional campaign (Me Russians againts the US) and morale and my inability to hit targets once I have moved has been causing me fits. Those MG's and atr's sound like just what I need to deal with the enemy ht's and cav that are causing me fits. I am looking forward to trying these idea's out. The soviets have had it a bit tough so far. Time for a change.
Thanks again for all the great suggestions!
Robert
If you're still in 41 buy some KV tanks and never worry about losing a tank again. Gotta love KVs.
"History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave."
-Edmund Morris
[img]http://publish.hometown.aol.com/kenkbar ... tual-b-o-b
-Edmund Morris
[img]http://publish.hometown.aol.com/kenkbar ... tual-b-o-b
I know but speaking for a German squads point of view killing a KV with a rifle grenade isnt fun at all.
"History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave."
-Edmund Morris
[img]http://publish.hometown.aol.com/kenkbar ... tual-b-o-b
-Edmund Morris
[img]http://publish.hometown.aol.com/kenkbar ... tual-b-o-b
light AA guns should help keep those engineers at bay and tankdesanthingies will help fend of assaults should anyone come to close.
Use smoke and arty to neutralize the 3inch guns and kill their transport ASAP. Remember, you don't HAVE to destroy those guns, you only have to make sure they don't shoot at you.
Keeping them in one place and restricting their field of vision makes this easier.
Use smoke and arty to neutralize the 3inch guns and kill their transport ASAP. Remember, you don't HAVE to destroy those guns, you only have to make sure they don't shoot at you.
Keeping them in one place and restricting their field of vision makes this easier.
FABRICATE DIEM, PVNC
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Scharfschütze
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Germany
The 37mm AA is indeed a nice toy capable of devastating soft targets at long ranges. I just have found that I prefer the 12,7mm Dshk since it is a little more mobile, since it can be loaded on tanks. Also somewhat more stealthy. The tradeoff is less ACC and HE kill, but I think the advantages justify this. For moving ATGs and AAA, try the Pack Mules. Supercheap, they quadruple these units move, while being more sneaky and less vulnerable than trucks.
Blinding enemy ATGs is, of course, a must.
Blinding enemy ATGs is, of course, a must.
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Scharfschütze
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Germany
-
Gary Tatro
- Posts: 1200
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:00 am
- Location: MA, US
Again
I would like to strongly suggest that winning with the Russians is not as hard as you might think it is. I win playing them all the time in my PBEM games. They are my favorite country to play. They have many week points but they also have many strong points. There are a few that Scharfschutze missed mainly the Guards infantry and tanks and the SU-57 which is a light mobil anti-tank vehicle. The Guard invariably carry a anti-tank device which gives them tremendous bonuses on assualts while having a base # of men of 12.
The Su-57 is an assume vehicle. Lightly armored so you have to be carful, but I have taken on and defeated platoons of tigers, panthers, an Elephant or two and many PZIV-J's. It carries a 57mm Anti-tank gun that fires AP rounds at range ten max penitration of 103, and carries up to 8 rounds of APRC that has a max penatration of 153. All for a small cost of 57 points. It also carries one of thoughs nice 12.7 HMG's Sharf was talking about. It starts out with 5 shots with its main gun and machine gun and goes up to 6 shots if you have 75+ experience.
Anyway if you are having trouble winning with the Russians it might be your game play. But if you are having trouble winning against the US it has more to do with the US's OOB. The Rangers are just way to strong and with the artillary advantage it is unrealistc. It is difficult to ever beat an opponent who is your equal playing against the US. IMHO.
The Su-57 is an assume vehicle. Lightly armored so you have to be carful, but I have taken on and defeated platoons of tigers, panthers, an Elephant or two and many PZIV-J's. It carries a 57mm Anti-tank gun that fires AP rounds at range ten max penitration of 103, and carries up to 8 rounds of APRC that has a max penatration of 153. All for a small cost of 57 points. It also carries one of thoughs nice 12.7 HMG's Sharf was talking about. It starts out with 5 shots with its main gun and machine gun and goes up to 6 shots if you have 75+ experience.
Anyway if you are having trouble winning with the Russians it might be your game play. But if you are having trouble winning against the US it has more to do with the US's OOB. The Rangers are just way to strong and with the artillary advantage it is unrealistc. It is difficult to ever beat an opponent who is your equal playing against the US. IMHO.
"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"
When we progess to the point I can buy the SU-57 I'll look it up. It is the US arty which is the bane of my existance. We have been playing 40-41 with the last battle in 41 now. Arty and my Russian morale have not mixed well. I will certainly take a close look at the SU-57 when available. In all honesty I will say I am playing against a better SPWAW individual than myself. I have learned a great deal playing him though and thats the important thing. 
Let me quickly just add how much I have appreciate all the various responses I have received. About to start the next mision and I am eager to put some of the suggestions into practice. One area that I seem to be behind (from the forums prospective) is in arty management. Both I and my opponent have the tendency to buy the biggest guns there are. I am having a tough time being pulled away from that. I know when my 203mm arty hits on target that I am doing damage. Kills and suppression. Losing a couple 203mm guns and getting some mortars is just kinda a hard step to take.
rj, are you guys playing with unlimited ammo? If you do that then, of course, there is no reason to get the smaller guns. But with limited ammo on, you should be running out of 203mm ammo pretty quickly. Also, your mortars are much more accurate so you can pound the enemy while your guys are very close. Not something you want to do when 203mm is being applied. (think of it in terms of scalpel (mortars) vs. axe (203mm) application of arty) It is much better to attack US Rangers after a good dose of 82mm has fallen on them than if they haven't taken any hits before you engage them with your infantry. You want your arty to fall at .3 or .4 delay so they don't have time to rally before you arrive to eliminate them in their suppressed state.
You should also be limiting your use of arty to 5 to 10% of your total points to increase your fun-factor. I also like the idea of having a limit of 2 batteries of 105mm or larger guns and then allow any number of mortars.
You should also be limiting your use of arty to 5 to 10% of your total points to increase your fun-factor. I also like the idea of having a limit of 2 batteries of 105mm or larger guns and then allow any number of mortars.
Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom
