OT - What a horrible daughter

[Icedawg]

http://gma.yahoo.com/92-old-world-war-i ... VM-;_ylv=3

This WWII vet should have put this b&%$h up for adoption the day she was born.

[wdolson]

My better half is an attorney and she has lots of these sorts of tales. She said when an estate doesn't have very clear designations of who gets what, she has yet to see a case in which one of the heirs didn't try and cheat everyone else out of their share. Even in families where the siblings all got along, suddenly the parents die and nice brother Jim becomes the biggest jerk on the planet.

One of her attorney friends even went through it when his parents died. His one brother who was already independently wealthy cheated all his siblings out of their share of the estate and now nobody in the family will talk to him. I believe he had a power of attorney too and used it to take the house before the last parent died, but he didn't tell anyone until the parents were gone.

If you're going to appoint someone to manage your estate, make sure it's someone you trust completely, and then pray you were right.

Bill

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

My better half is an attorney and she has lots of these sorts of tales. She said when an estate doesn't have very clear designations of who gets what, she has yet to see a case in which one of the heirs didn't try and cheat everyone else out of their share. Even in families where the siblings all got along, suddenly the parents die and nice brother Jim becomes the biggest jerk on the planet.

One of her attorney friends even went through it when his parents died. His one brother who was already independently wealthy cheated all his siblings out of their share of the estate and now nobody in the family will talk to him. I believe he had a power of attorney too and used it to take the house before the last parent died, but he didn't tell anyone until the parents were gone.

If you're going to appoint someone to manage your estate, make sure it's someone you trust completely, and then pray you were right.

Bill

Ugh. For those of us in that position, I pray that I don't screw the pooch like these people do / did. [:(]

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

My better half is an attorney and she has lots of these sorts of tales. She said when an estate doesn't have very clear designations of who gets what, she has yet to see a case in which one of the heirs didn't try and cheat everyone else out of their share. Even in families where the siblings all got along, suddenly the parents die and nice brother Jim becomes the biggest jerk on the planet.

One of her attorney friends even went through it when his parents died. His one brother who was already independently wealthy cheated all his siblings out of their share of the estate and now nobody in the family will talk to him. I believe he had a power of attorney too and used it to take the house before the last parent died, but he didn't tell anyone until the parents were gone.

If you're going to appoint someone to manage your estate, make sure it's someone you trust completely, and then pray you were right.

Bill

You're absolutely right Bill, but the daughter in this story goes even further than taking the inheritance from siblings. She tried to seriously screw her dad over. He gave the daughter power of attorney, and she deeded his house over to herself while he was still living in it. She then proceeded to charge him rent. Then, when he didn't pay his rent, she tried to have him evicted. Takes a complete sleaze bag to do something like this to your 92 year-old dad who fought to defend the freedoms you enjoy.

I see you emphasized the "independently wealthy" brother in the above story. I'd bet this daughter fits that description as well. Seems like wealth can be a disease in some people - the more they have, the more they've got to get.

[kaleun]

Seems like wealth can be a disease in some people - the more they have, the more they've got to get.

Or the more wealthy the more resources they have to screw others over.

[wdolson]

The daughter did take it a step further in this case.

In most cases I've seen the wealthiest of the heirs tries to screw over everyone else. I think the greed that drove them to amass a fortune in the first place also drives them to screw over their family as well.

Bill

[Cribtop]

Makes you realize Game of Thrones isn't unrealistic. Another triumph for my dim view of human nature.

[wdolson]

A few years ago I read a book about borderline personality disorders (BPD) and how they affect people. The author was an engineering professor but was inspired to write the book from her experiences with her own sister who had BPD. She said at the end of the book when she tells people about BPD, she gets one of two reactions. Either, "that can't be, nobody is like that!" or "let me tell you my story..."

I ran into a BPD as an adult and before I did, I would have been in the former group. Now I'm in the latter. My SO grew up with a BPD mother and is a Psychologist as well as a lawyer (family of over achievers). She's the one who pointed out the BPD patterns to in the person who had turned my life upside down for a while.

When we haven't run into a particular flavor of crazy in our lives, it's tough to get our mind around the fact that such a craziness exists. Then when we finally meet it understanding the patterns makes more sense.

Count yourself lucky you haven't run into almost sociopathic greed before. I've only brushed up against it, fortunately I've never been burned by it.

Bill

[PaxMondo]

Sometimes people mistake me for a nice guy. I'm not.

I was executor of Dad's estate, and he wanted each of us siblings and his current wife to share equally. His wife was not a US citizen at the time and they were not living in the US at the time.

Nice guy I am not; ethical and loyal I am. My Dad wanted it, and that is what he got. To the point that even though she was not in his will (intentionally), I had each sibling write a check after probate to the widow so that in the end everyone got exactly an even share. Fair.

The not nice guy part comes in with a couple of recalcitrant siblings. They did pay. Grudgingly, but they did pay. The good thing is that my siblings really do know I am not a nice guy and even they don't want to be on my bad side. [8D]

I would also add that my Dad named me executor because he knew all this beforehand.

My point being that people don't always choose executors for the right reason. You don't want a Labrador for your executor, you want the Doberman. Simple. Direct. Loyal. Follows commands. [:D]

[Fallschirmjager]

I have a law degree as well. I don't have a practice, but if people ask me for legal advice in terms of estate planning, then I do advise them. The quickest way to destroy a family is to die and not leave a will in place. My recommendation would be to leave a will to your estate in the hands of a third party, like an attorney, financial planner or mediator. Don't leave it in the hands of a blood relative.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Sometimes people mistake me for a nice guy. I'm not.

I was executor of Dad's estate, and he wanted each of us siblings and his current wife to share equally. His wife was not a US citizen at the time and they were not living in the US at the time.

Nice guy I am not; ethical and loyal I am. My Dad wanted it, and that is what he got. To the point that even though she was not in his will (intentionally), I had each sibling write a check after probate to the widow so that in the end everyone got exactly an even share. Fair.

The not nice guy part comes in with a couple of recalcitrant siblings. They did pay. Grudgingly, but they did pay. The good thing is that my siblings really do know I am not a nice guy and even they don't want to be on my bad side. [8D]

I would also add that my Dad named me executor because he knew all this beforehand.

My point being that people don't always choose executors for the right reason. You don't want a Labrador for your executor, you want the Doberman. Simple. Direct. Loyal. Follows commands. [:D]

You might be using a definition of 'nice guy' that I disagree with. Being a nice person does not (in my lingo) mean unable to be as hard as you judge needed or appropriate, or letting people take advantage of you. That might be called a pushover.

You seem like a nice guy around these parts. [8D]

BTW, can I borrow $5? What's the vig? [:D]

[AW1Steve]

Relations like this are probably a lot more common than one would think. Way back in my title abstractor days I used to see a lot of probated wills that would include the phrase " to my son (or daughter) I leave love and affection". Then the will would leave them nothing else. By including that phrase , it would tell the court, "Yeah I know I have kids , but I'm cutting them out of my will". Once in a great while you'd see one that would say "to my daughter I leave nothing but the pain and suffering that she gave me during my life". (OUCH![X(]).
 
 I guess it just show's that not every family is like the Walton's. [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Sometimes people mistake me for a nice guy. I'm not.

I was executor of Dad's estate, and he wanted each of us siblings and his current wife to share equally. His wife was not a US citizen at the time and they were not living in the US at the time.

Nice guy I am not; ethical and loyal I am. My Dad wanted it, and that is what he got. To the point that even though she was not in his will (intentionally), I had each sibling write a check after probate to the widow so that in the end everyone got exactly an even share. Fair.

The not nice guy part comes in with a couple of recalcitrant siblings. They did pay. Grudgingly, but they did pay. The good thing is that my siblings really do know I am not a nice guy and even they don't want to be on my bad side. [8D]

I would also add that my Dad named me executor because he knew all this beforehand.

My point being that people don't always choose executors for the right reason. You don't want a Labrador for your executor, you want the Doberman. Simple. Direct. Loyal. Follows commands. [:D]

I'm not sure I follow your post. Perhaps you mis-worded something. By using "current wife" and "widow" it makes me think there were two, and the widow was the first wife?

Regardless, if you were the executor you needed to execute the will as written and the probate court should have overseen that. If you used your office to exert leverage on sibs to do something intentionally not there in the will you were executing any of your sibs would have had a cause of action against you in probate court. IMO of course. I am not a lawyer.

We have just gone through a detailed round of estate planning here in Frostbite Falls. If done properly by a qualified estate attorney there is no need to face probate. Trust structures exist to avoid it and are not "only for rich people" any more. And the dangers of powers of attorney are well illustrated by this case and thousands of others. There is rarely a good reason to use one in elder care, certainly one with unlimited authority. In elder care situations court supervised guardianships and conservatorships are options. A family member can still fill the role, but they know the henhouse is being watched by Farmer Jones and not the fox.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Relations like this are probably a lot more common than one would think. Way back in my title abstractor days I used to see a lot of probated wills that would include the phrase " to my son (or daughter) I leave love and affection". Then the will would leave them nothing else. By including that phrase , it would tell the court, "Yeah I know I have kids , but I'm cutting them out of my will". Once in a great while you'd see one that would say "to my daughter I leave nothing but the pain and suffering that she gave me during my life". (OUCH![X(]).

I guess it just show's that not every family is like the Walton's. [:D]

Putting in that first clause is a preparation for a will challenge. If the kids are simply not mentioned they could argue it was due to a lack of mental capacity or some other reason. IOW, it was a mistake to exclude them. By specifically excluding them the challenge is harder.

OTOH, the common practice of venting in a will is discouraged by the probate lawyers I have known. You see it all the time in movies, but it has no legal effect and there are better venues to say these things (a letter perhaps?) One reason is that wills are often written years or decades before they are probated and things in families evolve. Imagine a child hearing that they are not only excluded but were hated by the parent way back in 1990 even though the relationship healed afterward and there were many years of happiness shared over grandchildren, for example.

Which brings up the point that too many people draft a will or estate plan when young and after a first child, stick it in a drawer, and never update it. Bad news.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Sometimes people mistake me for a nice guy. I'm not.

I was executor of Dad's estate, and he wanted each of us siblings and his current wife to share equally. His wife was not a US citizen at the time and they were not living in the US at the time.

Nice guy I am not; ethical and loyal I am. My Dad wanted it, and that is what he got. To the point that even though she was not in his will (intentionally), I had each sibling write a check after probate to the widow so that in the end everyone got exactly an even share. Fair.

The not nice guy part comes in with a couple of recalcitrant siblings. They did pay. Grudgingly, but they did pay. The good thing is that my siblings really do know I am not a nice guy and even they don't want to be on my bad side. [8D]

I would also add that my Dad named me executor because he knew all this beforehand.

My point being that people don't always choose executors for the right reason. You don't want a Labrador for your executor, you want the Doberman. Simple. Direct. Loyal. Follows commands. [:D]

I'm not sure I follow your post. Perhaps you mis-worded something. By using "current wife" and "widow" it makes me think there were two, and the widow was the first wife?

Regardless, if you were the executor you needed to execute the will as written and the probate court should have overseen that. If you used your office to exert leverage on sibs to do something intentionally not there in the will you were executing any of your sibs would have had a cause of action against you in probate court. IMO of course. I am not a lawyer.

We have just gone through a detailed round of estate planning here in Frostbite Falls. If done properly by a qualified estate attorney there is no need to face probate. Trust structures exist to avoid it and are not "only for rich people" any more. And the dangers of powers of attorney are well illustrated by this case and thousands of others. There is rarely a good reason to use one in elder care, certainly one with unlimited authority. In elder care situations court supervised guardianships and conservatorships are options. A family member can still fill the role, but they know the henhouse is being watched by Farmer Jones and not the fox.

current wife = widow. I used the different names to indicate the time in which actions took place. Everything in the will was done per the will, exactly as written. Everything else was done afterwards. Nothing within probate.

Sure, if you can find a lawyer that you trust, they can make good executors. A monkey can be trained to probate a will. Trivial. Unfortunately, like real estate agents and everything else, the profession is riddled with scoundrels and thieves. They delay settlement, charge processing fees, yaddi yaddi yaddi. Down here in the desert, you see little news snippets every month of an estate attorney convicted for defrauding 1500 families of their estates. Its so easy for them, and it takes so long to catch them and then prove anything. Think about it, 2 extra hours of billable time at $500/hour * 1000 familes = $1,000,000 ... enough said.

Maybe everyone up in Frostbite Falls are upstanding and honest. Upper MidWest is weird that way. Rest of the world is populated by greedy people.

Me? Simple. The only thing I will leave will be advice. I intend to have consumed all of the Laphroaig in my cabinet before I'm gone. [:D]

[catwhoorg]

Been involved in probate for two wills.

My first wife's was trivially easy, in that she literally left everything to me. I made sure some close friends got a key piece of jewelry or similar to remember her by.

My second MIL's was a mess. My wife was executor and her sister went complete crazy over 'not getting her fair share'. She wanted half the selling cost of the house, completely ignoring the fact that the mortgage had to be paid off out of that sale. They ended up not speaking to each other for a few years.

<edit>
My own parents recently redrafted their wills, and communicated the changes to my siblings and I.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Sometimes people mistake me for a nice guy. I'm not.

I was executor of Dad's estate, and he wanted each of us siblings and his current wife to share equally. His wife was not a US citizen at the time and they were not living in the US at the time.

Nice guy I am not; ethical and loyal I am. My Dad wanted it, and that is what he got. To the point that even though she was not in his will (intentionally), I had each sibling write a check after probate to the widow so that in the end everyone got exactly an even share. Fair.

The not nice guy part comes in with a couple of recalcitrant siblings. They did pay. Grudgingly, but they did pay. The good thing is that my siblings really do know I am not a nice guy and even they don't want to be on my bad side. [8D]

I would also add that my Dad named me executor because he knew all this beforehand.

My point being that people don't always choose executors for the right reason. You don't want a Labrador for your executor, you want the Doberman. Simple. Direct. Loyal. Follows commands. [:D]

I'm not sure I follow your post. Perhaps you mis-worded something. By using "current wife" and "widow" it makes me think there were two, and the widow was the first wife?

Regardless, if you were the executor you needed to execute the will as written and the probate court should have overseen that. If you used your office to exert leverage on sibs to do something intentionally not there in the will you were executing any of your sibs would have had a cause of action against you in probate court. IMO of course. I am not a lawyer.

We have just gone through a detailed round of estate planning here in Frostbite Falls. If done properly by a qualified estate attorney there is no need to face probate. Trust structures exist to avoid it and are not "only for rich people" any more. And the dangers of powers of attorney are well illustrated by this case and thousands of others. There is rarely a good reason to use one in elder care, certainly one with unlimited authority. In elder care situations court supervised guardianships and conservatorships are options. A family member can still fill the role, but they know the henhouse is being watched by Farmer Jones and not the fox.

current wife = widow. I used the different names to indicate the time in which actions took place. Everything in the will was done per the will, exactly as written. Everything else was done afterwards. Nothing within probate.

Sure, if you can find a lawyer that you trust, they can make good executors. A monkey can be trained to probate a will. Trivial. Unfortunately, like real estate agents and everything else, the profession is riddled with scoundrels and thieves. They delay settlement, charge processing fees, yaddi yaddi yaddi. Down here in the desert, you see little news snippets every month of an estate attorney convicted for defrauding 1500 families of their estates. Its so easy for them, and it takes so long to catch them and then prove anything. Think about it, 2 extra hours of billable time at $500/hour * 1000 familes = $1,000,000 ... enough said.

Maybe everyone up in Frostbite Falls are upstanding and honest. Upper MidWest is weird that way. Rest of the world is populated by greedy people.

Me? Simple. The only thing I will leave will be advice. I intend to have consumed all of the Laphroaig in my cabinet before I'm gone. [:D]

Ok. I was and still am a little confused by what you said: he wanted the widow to share, but she wasn't in the will. That seems to be on him to fix, not you. But I will withdraw further comment as it's a matter where I have no facts.

I would never have a lawyer as an executor (up here, and in all Uniform Probate Code states--23 I think now?--they're called "personal representative", not executor/executrix), but many probates do need legal advice. Similarly, I would never have a lawyer as a trustee, but setting up a trust structure without one is a really dumb move. In most cases a family member can safely be a trustee so long as safeguards are built into the trust.

Probate courts are busy and the paperwork is immense. But they do exist to referee difficult family situations. It's a fascinating area of law. I don't know that the Upper Midwest is more ethical than anywhere else, but families up here tend to be huge, and family is very, very important in a region without as much in- and out-migration as the Sun Belt, for example. The fights over both family farms and family lake cabins can be epic.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

My own parents recently redrafted their wills, and communicated the changes to my siblings and I.

It's a hard conversation to have. Been there recently. Burial plans are even harder, especially in a second marriage situation with kids from #1.

My view though is those who refuse to plan are not being kind to the survivors but instead imposing a huge burden on them. It's the very last thing we do in this world and our last chance to have done what we want done. It's amazing how many people die intestate and let cold, distant statutes determine the course of events.

[Schanilec]

That woman must know my sister. Before he passed my dad cut her from his will. He was proved correct when my mom passed with some of the crap she tried to pull. Since then I have taken time to create my will in line with dad's will. Piece of mind feels great.

[Treetop64]

Further proof that, for some, blood relatives are your worst enemies. Further confirmation that I did the right thing by completely severing all contact with mine. If I have anything left when I die (if I don't spend it all first) it's all going to charity. Not a cent is going to any one of those monkeys.
I hope that c@%t is aware that what goes around, comes around. Usually with interest.