To those happy new users

[Alejo1968]

Hi and hope you are really enjoying it (which I have no doubt), and one question...

This one is concerning scenarios in which there are involved exclusively air vs naval units, and in low quantities.

Just some background related to my question...
In the South Atlantic war, or also Malvinas/Falklands conflict, there were no naval combat involving ships, and only the sinking of the Argentine Belgrano cruiser (by the Conqueror SSN) was close to that. Mostly it was the Argentine Air Force and the Naval Air Force attacking destroyers and frigates that were making pickets W of the islands, escorting landing crafts in the strait and protecting the beachhead, or escorting capital ships of the fleet.
Those attacks never involved more than 2 to 4 aircrafts, no ECM, no Chaff, just very very low flying, ground councelment approach, and surprise. This way, the Argentine air force got to attack the Invencible Carrier.
I found not Harpoon good at recreating this kind of engagements. Eventhough the casualty rate of argentine aircrafts was very high (close to 25% if you compare it to a standard value of 9/10 % in WW2 air bombing missions), it appeared to me that no ECM and chaff in harpoon, only iron bombs as a weapon, and you were dead.
Do you think, with what you have seen so far, that this simulation allows you to recreate things close to the real history and still keep a scenario like the one I mention fun and engaging? Do you think that this software is better intended to more crowded battles?
I would really like to have the chance to analize more strategies than those that were actually used in the South Atlantic war, but strictly keeping the facts as they happened in 1982.
Sorry for being so specific, but this is somehow personal.
Thanks a lot!
And again, hope you are enjoying it in a terrific way [:)]

[Primarchx]

You'll find Command a better fit. On the open ocean it will be tough because AD ships will have greater opportunity to shoot at inbound bandits and of course Harriers will vector in quickly due to timely GCI. However I did a Bomb Alley scenario during Beta that showed that you could be pretty effective in constrained waters (such as San Carlos Water). Argie attack aircraft had to use the terrain to their advantage as close to RN ships as possible before attacking. We found missile defenses to be pretty nasty, though, and several a/c were usually lost. However several ships typically got hit, too.

[smudge56]

I wouldnt mind playing out the Falklands war. Does the game have special forces like the SAS and SBS?

[Alejo1968]

Thx for the answer.
So I assume... In open sea, lets suppose 4 a/c, low flying, no RWR, ECM, Chaff, against a 42 type DD (sea dart missiles) and an 22 type frigate (sea wolf missiles) you would expect the british ships to have a probability kill superior then 30% against incoming a/c, in this simulation, right?
Thanks in advance.

[Primarchx]

4 a/c going as low as they can over the open sea against a Type 22 & 42 would very likely be toast in Command.

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01

Thx for the answer.
So I assume... In open sea, lets suppose 4 a/c, low flying, no RWR, ECM, Chaff, against a 42 type DD (sea dart missiles) and an 22 type frigate (sea wolf missiles) you would expect the british ships to have a probability kill superior then 30% against incoming a/c, in this simulation, right?
Thanks in advance.

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

4 a/c going as low as they can over the open sea against a Type 22 & 42 would very likely be toast in Command.

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01

Thx for the answer.
So I assume... In open sea, lets suppose 4 a/c, low flying, no RWR, ECM, Chaff, against a 42 type DD (sea dart missiles) and an 22 type frigate (sea wolf missiles) you would expect the british ships to have a probability kill superior then 30% against incoming a/c, in this simulation, right?
Thanks in advance.

Lol, Ty

[goodwoodrw]

Abbeville, I have successfully taken out the Coventry and Broadsword with a Skyhawk attack in the Sea of Fire scenario. I used the Super Entendards as bait and brought the 2 Skyhawk flights up through the Sound at a height of around 200 feet. I made sure they hugged the shore line to the last possible minute before changing to full speed and direction to attack the ships. The first couple of times the I tried this scenario i got my A/C to the ships, but wouldn't drop their ordinance. Mike may well confirm this but I think you need to manually set your attitude inside the weapon release envelope for A/C to drop their load. Initially I made passes over the ships at my approach altitude of 200 feet too low for a 1000 GP bomb. Mike is this correct one needs to manually set altitude during an attack? Still lost 3 out the 6 Skyhawks, agood return I thinks[:D]
Ron

[Primarchx]

It's actions like this where you find that fine-tuned manual control takes the game to a completely new level. Wait until you're popping up to avoid local AAA only to dive back in again to deliver your Mk 82s... [8D]

ORIGINAL: BASB

Abbeville, I have successfully taken out the Coventry and Broadsword with a Skyhawk attack in the Sea of Fire scenario. I used the Super Entendards as bait and brought the 2 Skyhawk flights up through the Sound at a height of around 200 feet. I made sure they hugged the shore line to the last possible minute before changing to full speed and direction to attack the ships. The first couple of times the I tried this scenario i got my A/C to the ships, but wouldn't drop their ordinance. Mike may well confirm this but I think you need to manually set your attitude inside the weapon release envelope for A/C to drop their load. Initially I made passes over the ships at my approach altitude of 200 feet too low for a 1000 GP bomb. Mike is this correct one needs to manually set altitude during an attack? Still lost 3 out the 6 Skyhawks, agood return I thinks[:D]
Ron

[smudge56]

Our thoughts are with the brave sailors of her majesty's navy.

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: BASB

Abbeville, I have successfully taken out the Coventry and Broadsword with a Skyhawk attack in the Sea of Fire scenario. I used the Super Entendards as bait and brought the 2 Skyhawk flights up through the Sound at a height of around 200 feet. I made sure they hugged the shore line to the last possible minute before changing to full speed and direction to attack the ships. The first couple of times the I tried this scenario i got my A/C to the ships, but wouldn't drop their ordinance. Mike may well confirm this but I think you need to manually set your attitude inside the weapon release envelope for A/C to drop their load. Initially I made passes over the ships at my approach altitude of 200 feet too low for a 1000 GP bomb. Mike is this correct one needs to manually set altitude during an attack? Still lost 3 out the 6 Skyhawks, agood return I thinks[:D]
Ron

BASB... THANKYOU VERY MUCH for taking the time to check this out. Thank you very much.
I think there is now a software that can model the war as it was, I´m truly excited!

As a side note, in the real historical engagement (in which Coventry was sunk (my deepest respect to the sailors that were in it))), all four Skyhawks survived. BUT, the Broadsword saw her SA defense system reboot due to a failure (Sea wolf missiles), and when the system was once again ready (this happened before the last two aircrafts where about to pass) the coventry crossed the line of sight of the broadsword, so she was not able to fire. Meanwhile, the sea darts of the coventry never got a firing solution due to land clutter for the elevations in the back of the skyhawks. So, there were also other factors that helped the argentine a/c to survive...
Its great to be able to comment all this with people that can actually understand it. My wife was tired to listen to me[:D]
Just allow me to tell you something... When I was younger, I practiced many times (I flew the same Mirages V that fought on the islands) noe attacks against naval targets (mostly DDs plus FFs)... You cannot imagine how small you feel when you get closer and closer to those slow moving silhouettes clearly distinguishable in the horizon. I mean, they look like real killers! Eventhough you are flying at 500kts, it takes you 2 mins to fly the 20 miles that separates you from them. Also... man, they can turn in a sec!

Thank you againg an allow me to tell you, you were the last push I needed.
Now going down to negotiate with her.

[smudge56]

Good luck my fingers are crossed.

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Good luck my fingers are crossed.

DOWNLOADING!
Well, I just had to give up a few things [:)] [:)] [:)]

[smudge56]

I hope it wasn't a kidney. [:D]

[Dimitris]

The value of the firstborn is overrated.

[smudge56]

Lol well I've made the jump to now. Downloading.......[:)]

[Primarchx]

Welcome aboard, Captain!

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Lol well I've made the jump to now. Downloading.......[:)]

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

It's actions like this where you find that fine-tuned manual control takes the game to a completely new level. Wait until you're popping up to avoid local AAA only to dive back in again to deliver your Mk 82s... [8D]

We used to call that attack profile "30 In" and "45 out" (of enemy air defenses). In the second one the pop up allowed you to go into a dive of 45 degrees on final run, and stay out of enemy air defenses (35mm AAA) according on how high and how far you made the pop up...Very effective, and not surprised it can be modelled properly with this software [:)]

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Lol well I've made the jump to now. Downloading.......[:)]

[:)][:)]

[smudge56]

Yes I finally gave in to the need. [:)]

[juanchopancho]

is it possible to go lower than 200? I bet some of them came under 100ft. Some of the bombs in San Carlos were dropped so low that the fuse didn't have enough time to arm.