Newb scenario try - Battle for the Strečno Gap (Slovakia, Aug./Sept. 1944)

[joeyeti]

Hi folks,

I have mulled over a suitable test scenario I could try to design (considered something from the Normandy campaign, but would have to dig deeper to get the correct OOB, maps etc. - maybe a further project?) and stumbled upon a good article on the Strečno Gap battle (near Žilina in Slovakia) in August/September 1944. On top of that, as I am Slovak myself, no questions were asked anymore!

The mentioned article paints a good overview with many details and what is best - with topological maps for each day! Unfortunately the links in the article pointing to the enlarged maps do not work anymore, but there is an alternative - this one is the original slovak text, where the pictures work.

The map size is roughly 16x24km, which is a perfect fit for Command Ops. Also, from the looks of it the unit OOB will not be anywhere huge (some platoons, companies and battalions), however first needs to be created.

1. Can anyone advise on a good source for the OOBs for both sides? I am not sure if good sources can be found, given the local nature of the conflict...

2. Are the specifics of the situation (e.g. limited tank movement due to the steep slopes) reflected in the natural terrain composition? I use 100m layers, as seen on the map. Or would it need to be artificially modeled?


Start of the battle...

[pekische]

Čau. Tohle určitě vyzkouším, až to bude hotové...

/trans: Hi, I will certainly try it if you finish it/

[Phoenix100]

It would be fantastic. Do it! I'll play it.

[jimcarravall]

[quote]ORIGINAL: joeyeti

Hi folks,

I have mulled over a suitable test scenario I could try to design (considered something from the Normandy campaign, but would have to dig deeper to get the correct OOB, maps etc. - maybe a further project?) and stumbled upon a good article on the Strečno Gap battle (near Žilina in Slovakia) in August/September 1944. On top of that, as I am Slovak myself, no questions were asked anymore!

. . .

The map size is roughly 16x24km, which is a perfect fit for Command Ops. Also, from the looks of it the unit OOB will not be anywhere huge (some platoons, companies and battalions), however first needs to be created.

1. Can anyone advise on a good source for the OOBs for both sides? I am not sure if good sources can be found, given the local nature of the conflict...

This is an old article I found which lists several sources for Orders of Battle.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... hp?t=37721

2. Are the specifics of the situation (e.g. limited tank movement due to the steep slopes) reflected in the natural terrain composition? I use 100m layers, as seen on the map. Or would it need to be artificially modeled?

Height layers should be viewed as the contour lines on topographical maps. The nearer a contour line to the next higher one, the steeper the slope. Stack several 100m layers atop each other with only a few meters separating each layer, and you create a steep slope.

[joeyeti]

Thx jim, will check it out!

What I meant under 2. is if the game models the tough terrain for mechanized troops naturally (if I create it as a steep slope with layers close to each other), or if I have to set some additional options either for mechanized units or in the scenario to limit their movement...

[dazkaz15]

Looks great.
The motorised units have a limit to the degree of slope they can traverse in game, unless it has a road running over it, so I imagine that if you set the contour intervals up correctly for it, they won't be able to traverse it.

I don't however have any experience in doing this, so its just an informed guess.

There is some steep terrain like this in the starter scenario " Return to St Vith" so you may want to open that up in the scenario maker, and take a look at it.
Its the steep ground near the river.

[joeyeti]

Just checked, yes, the St. Vith map looks like that and that has only 30m layers, so my 100m ones should be fine.

I have already found a rough OOB for the two german Kampfgruppe units that took the offensive.
Can anyone confirm this would be correct?
What would be the "VS" marked red?

Kampfgruppe "von Ohlen" (Oberst/Colonel Conrad von Ohlen)
Panzer-Grenadier Ersatz- und Ausbildungs-Regiment 82
VS Ausbildungs Battailon
Sturmgruppe "Senica"
1. Kompanie / 373 Feldersatzbataillon (?)
Panzer Ersatzbataillon/Kompanie? (15x Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. H, since mid-September 1944 also 15x PzKpfw 38(t), so not relevant for this scenario)

Kampfgruppe "Junck" (Oberst/Colonel Stephan Junck)
Panzer-Grenadier Ersatz- und Ausbildungs-Regiment 85
Panzer-Grenadier Ersatz- und Ausbildungs-Regiment 13
8 PanzerJaegerkompanie (14x StuG-III Ausf.G)

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: joeyeti

Thx jim, will check it out!

What I meant under 2. is if the game models the tough terrain for mechanized troops naturally (if I create it as a steep slope with layers close to each other), or if I have to set some additional options either for mechanized units or in the scenario to limit their movement...

If you have it, the recently released Greek Pack (I don't get anything for "selling" it ) may provide some insight to how to draw terrain to constrain motorized / tracked forces.

A couple of the practice scenarios drew some comment because the victory location for one is in terrain inaccessible to motorized forces due to terrain and slope issues.

Looking at the mapmaker of those may provide some insight on how to address the issues you cite.

[joeyeti]

Thx Jim!

Do not have Crete so far (maybe in future), but I can test it in the editor also.


I might have an answer to the VS shortcut - it might be Volkssturm troops, or?

[joeyeti]

A small update on the map - coming along nicely, albeit slow (not much time and too many contours ). But we will get there!

[joeyeti]

Update on the map - showing what it will look like finally!
More layers to be done to connect both river sides eventually, but the towns/villages are all there, as well as the rivers and streams (I ommited the really small ones, passable by foot as well as vehicle unconstrained...).

[joeyeti]

Hi guys,

update and a question reg. the motorized movement:

Nearly finished map...


Strecno Pass (without forest layer for clarity)


Mechanized Move Table with upper left section highlighted...


Now to the question - the red highway running from top to bottom half should allow mechanized movement, or? However when looking at the Mech Movement Table, it seems mechanized units can't get through the Strecno Pass (and/or the tight section between the moutains), even if the Highway is present...

EDIT: Might it be because the highway is too close to the river?

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: joeyeti

A small update on the map - coming along nicely, albeit slow (not much time and too many contours ). But we will get there!

Nice map!

I'm haven't used MapMaker to recreate this type of terrain with dramatic increases in height cut by narrow river passes, but if I were to guess, the sequencing of when the layers were drawn may have something to do with the road being overlapped by impassible terrain (either the river or, more likely, the heights).

If the issue is the heights, you may have to create a narrow "terrace" by adjusting the contours in the same manner that highway builders cut into the side of a mountain to create enough flat terrain to build a road.

If the issue is the river, you either have to move the road further from the river onto a "terrace" or create a "bridge" where the river overlaps the road.

[joeyeti]

Jim,

I will definitely try carving out more of the terrain near the road... Interestingly, I created a simple highway directly cutting through all the terrain (from Stranavy to TURC. sv. MARTIN) and it became passable for mechanized. But this might be different than going along the terrain layers...

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: joeyeti

Jim,

I will definitely try carving out more of the terrain near the road... Interestingly, I created a simple highway directly cutting through all the terrain (from Stranavy to TURC. sv. MARTIN) and it became passable for mechanized. But this might be different than going along the terrain layers...

The MapMaker may do a better job of calculating "passibility" for a highway going at near perpendicular angles to the terrain than it does for going along the "slants" caused by running parallel with more than one contour line.

It might easier to calculate going up and down than sliding sideways into the guard rail .

[joeyeti]

Turns out it was the road being too close to the river I managed to move it farther out without altering the terrain at all, so that is a plus... Now onto the other details (tweaking terrain accessibility near Visnove for mechanized, adding a crossing near Sucany and such)!

It will still be interesting to create the OOB given the lack of certain information, but I guess I will abstract a bit with units I have no composition for, by copying some existing Estab tables...

[joeyeti]

I am finally making some progress on the unit composition for this conflict, I found some local sources with more detailed description of the fighting and such...