FTMTTR

[Phoenix100]

Just playing through FTMTTR for Simovitch, to see if the supplies issues arise if I try to use more frugal expenditure and supply settings. Realistic delay normal options etc. Forgive my crap graphics.

The position at 7pm in Nijmegan below. No real heavy fighting yet, nothing to test the supply runs as yet. In fact, I don't think anyone has requested emergency supply thus far. 3 Bns of the 508 are closing in on the rail bridge, Nijmegan centre and the road bridge. I've established 505PIR in blocking positions sth of the city, protecting the SEP and the supply routes to Nijmegan. 2-504 have taken Grave bridge, stripped it of explosives and will now probe into Grave town. After reducing defenders there they will head north to assist 508PIR. 1-504 has taken Heuman bridge, will now take Mook, then move to Berg-en Dal to act as a reserve. 3-504 have taken Honighutje and will assist 508PIR now.

[Phoenix100]

The position at 7pm day in Arnhem below. Various weak blocking units to the west. 7KOSB to hold Oosterbeek and all the bases save the Divisional base, which I left by the SEP, with the south staffs guarding. Bor Bn to push into West Arnhem if possible.

3 para have taken the railbridge, rendered it safe and will now head for the southern approach to the highway bridge, going sth of the river.

2 para are busy taking the highway bridge, along with Freddie Gough's recon squad and 2 companies of the indeps.
1 para and 1 co of the indeps are blocking the road to the east, where most Axis reinforcements will arrive. Except the AI has already out-flanked them.

[Phoenix100]

Arnhem day 1 7pm in closer detail. 2 para and 1 para will have a hard time closing up before the weight of Axis opposition descends on them. I expect many supply problems tonight!!! Though nothing yet. I'm now going to convert them to min supply and slowest ROF. Already though, it looks grim to me. We've achieved the objectives, but I know what's coming.....

[skarp]

that's very quick for the AI to sidestep - I usually use the recon coy to block that road further out on the edge of velp. Usually it keeps the AI stuck for hours.

anyway you've done well to have the bridges - as you say keeping them is another matter

[Phoenix100]

Yep. Should have put something on that road nearer Velp too. Too late now. It's nice to see Gough's recon troop doing what they were historically tasked to do though!

It will be difficult to pull 1 para back safely now, I think. And I couldn't get 2 para into the bridge area quick enough to get the west Arnhem route blocked either, so they're already under pressure. Next time I'll do better! Task a company to block the west Arnhem axis ingress route (though it's not easy in the tight timeframe because to get into position they have to get past an infantry company that sits right by the 'Arnhem Highway Bridge North' objective marker there, and that can take some time.)

[skarp]

Well the Germans are still pretty thin on the ground at this stage. You have the Borders coming up from the west to hit Harder in the rear as well as 3 Para to reinforce the northern end of the bridge.

[Phoenix100]

If 3 para reach the bridge.... I recall that an SS recon Bn 'spawns' around Elst soon and usually heads up into a blocking position....

[Phoenix100]

So. Predictably the 2-508 PIR suffer the first 100% interdiction. This is almost 2 in the morning, dark, and they have requested supply (despite all their supply settings being on min, plus Rof min too)that can move wholly through great cover and concealment - a built-up urban environment - and with (I would have thought) a normal amount of caution, supply that can easily avoid enemy LOS. But the picture below (a surrender pic) shows the avoidance route which takes them straight through enemy LOS, I assume. When I check area LOS, it seems the enemy AA unit which is closest to 2-508 HQ has the avoidance route in LOS. In addition the Axis units on the bridge and southern bridge approaches have the 2-508 HQ itself in LOS. This killed 2 jeeps.

So I don't know what you think, Simovitch/Richard? For me this is not realistic. A small deviation in the avoidance route would have ensured full supply. Or should have. Because I'm not sure where the interdiction takes place, or how. Maybe those units with the 2-508HQ in LOS do this? So that whatever the avoidance route on the way the supply column is always going to be in LOS when it reaches the HQ? But again, in this type of environment, they would have crawled through ruined houses and got the supply in. No?

Let's see how many times this is now repeated.....

[Phoenix100]

Here we go again. They requested re-supply immediately the first column didn't get through, and 45 mins later the second column follows, we suppose, the same route. Another jeep down. This will continue all night. By daybreak I will have lost a third, or more, of my jeeps, and this is with all settings on min. You might argue I should do something more. But what needs 'doing' is the plotting of a sensible avoidance route, perhaps (which I can't do), or the turning off of all re-supply attempts (ditto), or pull back 2-508 to some theoretical safe position.

But if this is what the game forces you to do - pull back the Bn in these circs - then it really is getting it wrong, I think. The Bn are in a good position, in good cover and concealment, with an abundance of routes into them from their rear base that avoid enemy LOS. I feel that in circs like this in RL then supply would get through. There is no ongoing arty barrage on the battalion or it's approaches, by the way (at least nothing I can see). It's just one of two things - either a portion of the avoidance route crosses enemy LOS, or, in any event, the requesting unit (2-508) is in LOS - in other words the mere presence of the enemy units in front of them cuts the supply. If they were sitting in a field I might understand it.

[Phoenix100]

And again. 1 more jeep bites the dust....

[Phoenix100]

Slight variation, but another jeep down. I had detached d company and ordered it into the 'gap'.

As you see, it's roughly every 45 mins you lose a jeep. And perfectly decent avoidance routes are available.

At this rate the 508 base will be without jeeps in 12 hours. In a 9 day scenario, where they were historically in supply for at least four days more.

I will now pull them back a bit, but given the way this happens, it won't do any good. The enemy will close to their new positions and the interdiction will continue. Help....

[Phoenix100]

And again. You get the idea, Richard?

This was 4.49, another jeep down.

the HQ is being heavily engaged now. But (1) why the repeat attempts at the same crap avoidance route? (2) why can't supply get through to the rear of an engaged HQ, especially where it is fighting in great cover and concealment. My god! if we had a Stalingrad game and this was the supply modelling then Stalingrad would be over in 2 days!!

[Phoenix100]

So. It's a bit monotonous playing this. Obviously I won't have jeeps left for some crucial bases - even using min settings - by day 3 or 4. So I'll stop now and mod it and play. But let me know if there's any reason you think I should continue a bit to get more data. Or if you want any saves. Cheers!

[dazkaz15]

Looking forward to your AAR once the issue gets fixed phoenix.
Your map graphics may not be the best, but at least you are fast with the updates, unlike me [8|]

[Phoenix100]

Yes. But yours are a joy to behold!

I think I'll give the game a rest now until these issues get fixed. Or at least try to find a shorter scenario I can play. Though I notice it now when playing the shorter ones too. You're not going to end up - even in your bête noir, Elsenborn, perhaps - running out of transports, but you're still going to see units not getting supply when they should be. It doesn't irritate you when you're playing Elsenborn?


Part of the irritation for me is that I can't work up a fix that gets it right. Because the British paras did lose all their jeeps in MG in reality, of course. So you need them to lose them sometimes (all the time, even, if you just replicate the historical tactics, problems and mistakes). The fixes I have basically take the transport part out of the game, so that it doesn't matter how many jeeps you lose, you'll always have more. And that's not quite what we want either.