Resource and Production question.

[Majorball68]

I notice that at anytime during a turn you can access the production screen. If you suddenly lose 2 convoys that were transporting resources and there is no alternative path the AI sets them as Idle.

When do the actual resources get sent, when the production turn arrives at the end of a turn?

I mean if I lose 2 convoys during 1 impulse and replace the 2 convoys later in another impulse will the resources still make it through to a factory at production?

Is it advisable to set the Supply path yourself rather then leave it as the AI default?

I notice the AI will pick up another available resource should 1 no longer have path to the factory.

Any tips or advice on this would be appreciated.

[Joseignacio]

Yes, at least in WIF and I am sure in MWIF it's the turn end which is affected by the resources reaching factories. You may have all the impulses the seas empty, but if you put the convoys the last impulse of the turn, it's ok.

[dhucul2011]

Is there a way to "turn off" the computer calculation of the convoy routes and do it all manually from scratch?

I think I have it all figured out with 22 factories at full production for the CW. I have a few extra convoys in England so I set out to put them at sea to grab extra resources to transfer other places. As soon as I do that all of sudden the computer rethinks the convoy routes and now I have 21 factories producing. Huh.....

An easy toggle for the player to choose manual convoy routes only would be great. The computer would only check the route to see if it is valid.

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: dhucul

Is there a way to "turn off" the computer calculation of the convoy routes and do it all manually from scratch?

I think I have it all figured out with 22 factories at full production for the CW. I have a few extra convoys in England so I set out to put them at sea to grab extra resources to transfer other places. As soon as I do that all of sudden the computer rethinks the convoy routes and now I have 21 factories producing. Huh.....

An easy toggle for the player to choose manual convoy routes only would be great. The computer would only check the route to see if it is valid.

Yeh this happens quite a lot, I set default for Burma resource to go to China and during the final Prod phase I find it has changed and the resource comes from the UK and uses an existing convoy chain to do this. I then have to manually set up again the resource from Burma to China and this then frees up the convoy route allowing the extra resource that previously used this route to go to the UK! It is quite annoying!

[paulderynck]

Working with one of the game files from the Tech Support forum I was able to do it.

First open the Help for the Form and drag it somewhere where you can constantly refer to it - as you'll need to.

Set all your resources using Default settings. You can do this with the radio button set to Summary or to Expanded. When using the Defaults, resources and destinations will show in green font. Don't worry about convoys yet.

Finally click the Route radio button and set all the convoyed resources to go through the sea zones you want, and make those the Defaults. How to do this is described near the end of the Help info.

[WarHunter]

Thanks for the directions to follow. I'll be sure to use them if any bugs happen to pop up, like Montreal.
[:)]

[Majorball68]

How do you route a resource thru a sea zone you want?

I see the path a resource takes by selecting 'Route' however I was not aware you could alter this manually. I notice some resources go thru and extra sea zone when there is a path via a shorter route and I would like to know how to do this.

[paulderynck]

Caveat - when I was doing this it was a non-oil game. I need to play with doing the same if its an oil game as then it will be more complex due to attempts to save unused oil most efficiently. I built rough instructions into a picture below to go with this. I plan on making a more detailed tutorial document to post here.

When you first click the resource, depending what you tried before, there may be a Default or Override already - Clear them. When you are picking destinations for the resources, the possible ones that appear will be when the "Compute" option is on. Make sure you pick a destination with a factory you know is - so far - not producing. Now change the option from Compute to Default. I then clicked the Recompute button every time, but you may only have to do that once at the end, if you are confident you made all your changes correctly. Any unused resources should be defaulted to idle!

Now, as per the bottom portion of the form's Help info, you look at the route using the Route button and starting from the resource, you scan the sea zones it is going through. The first one you don't like, you right click on. Then below on the global map that shows in the form, you can left click on the name of the sea zone you prefer, then the next and the next. When you get to the last one and are pleased overall with that route. You click on the last one a second time and that locks the route as a default.

Be careful if using convoys from more than one major power that you don't use the same CPs as you did with the first major power. A major power always has first dibs on its own CPs.

Also as the Help File warns, if you use all defaults, then MWiF assumes all the CPs are where you need them. If you've goofed, you won't be advised. If your CP chains get zotted by enemy subs, you'll get another chance to pick up what pieces you can for this turn. To do this, when Preliminary Production comes up at the end of the turn you can set Override on some of the defaults. Defaults are always in play until changed. Overrides are for one turn only.

[Majorball68]

Good explanation thanks!

[dhucul2011]

Thanks for the walkthrough. I'll give that a try.

Unfortunately I have to say that the convoy allocation system in MWIF is broken.

It not intuitive, its very frustrating and it needs a complete overhaul.

I don't know if Shannon reads this but I would suggest a form that has a map where you can simply pick up a resource and drag it along the route you want to its destination. It would X out invalid moves just as when moving units on the main map. When you get to the destination you choose production, save or trade etc.

If we can't get something like that then at least a simple button to toggle OFF the computer attempts at calculating.

Just my two cents.

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: dhucul

Thanks for the walkthrough. I'll give that a try.

Unfortunately I have to say that the convoy allocation system in MWIF is broken.

It not intuitive, its very frustrating and it needs a complete overhaul.

I don't know if Shannon reads this but I would suggest a form that has a map where you can simply pick up a resource and drag it along the route you want to its destination. It would X out invalid moves just as when moving units on the main map. When you get to the destination you choose production, save or trade etc.

If we can't get something like that then at least a simple button to toggle OFF the computer attempts at calculating.

Just my two cents.

Nice idea.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: dhucul

Thanks for the walkthrough. I'll give that a try.

Unfortunately I have to say that the convoy allocation system in MWIF is broken.

It not intuitive, its very frustrating and it needs a complete overhaul.

I don't know if Shannon reads this but I would suggest a form that has a map where you can simply pick up a resource and drag it along the route you want to its destination. It would X out invalid moves just as when moving units on the main map. When you get to the destination you choose production, save or trade etc.

If we can't get something like that then at least a simple button to toggle OFF the computer attempts at calculating.

Just my two cents.

A nice idea, but simplistic.

Trade agreements must be fulfilled. So if at the end of your route planning, you did not fulfill all the trade agreements, the program would say: "Wrong, your routing fails to fulfill XYZ." I didn't (and I still don't) want to have players complaining about that message every time their routing violates that rule.

There are many other rules as well related to routing resources. One of the big problems is that a route laid out early in the turn might become infeasible later because of lost convoys or control of ports, etc. If the program relies on the player doing all the routes manually, then any blips between the Preliminary and Final Production Planning stages would have to be 'repaired' manually by the player.

And again, there would be the all-too-frequent "Wrong" message popping up.

Automation with defaults and overrides is a better design, but right now there are bugs that make it hard to use.[:(]

[dhucul2011]

Thanks for the reply Shannon.

I understand the complexities so will look forward to the ironing out of the "bugs" as well as further enhancements to simplify the process.

I love every aspect of the game except for the production planning for the CW.

There has got to be an easier method!

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: dhucul

Thanks for the reply Shannon.

I understand the complexities so will look forward to the ironing out of the "bugs" as well as further enhancements to simplify the process.

I love every aspect of the game except for the production planning for the CW.

There has got to be an easier method!

Well it was complex in the real world as well. Shipping resources from around the world back to the UK was no small logistical feat. It seems simple enough once set. I find its a good idea to have a few extra resources shipping back to the UK even if they remain on idle because they are not required. This means you can spend a little less time micro managing them. Saying that you need to keep looking for the most efficient and safest path back to the UK and when you lose convoys and resource points its a good idea to scan over them. The game seems to give you every opportunity to fix things during the pre production phase.

[Klydon]

You really have to watch what it is doing with your resources because a lot of times, it doesn't use much common sense.

Case in point, the CW decided to send some extra resources to the Chinese. Why not since there are some local resources that otherwise have a very long way to go to get back to England.

So imagine my surprise when I open up the production planning que and note that in order to fulfill the promise of 2 resources to China that the computer decides to send these all the way from England through 9 sea zones while at the same time, knocking off two UK factories to idle. In the meantime, I notice the extra 2 convoy points I put in the Bay of Bengal are idle when I thought it would be a no brainer to use the 2 unused resources in Malaya to go to China to help the war effort there. Nope, those suckers are idle and so is the 2 convoy points.

The good news is I was able to fix it without too much trouble, but the point is you have to pay attention to what is going on.

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

You really have to watch what it is doing with your resources because a lot of times, it doesn't use much common sense.

Case in point, the CW decided to send some extra resources to the Chinese. Why not since there are some local resources that otherwise have a very long way to go to get back to England.

So imagine my surprise when I open up the production planning que and note that in order to fulfill the promise of 2 resources to China that the computer decides to send these all the way from England through 9 sea zones while at the same time, knocking off two UK factories to idle. In the meantime, I notice the extra 2 convoy points I put in the Bay of Bengal are idle when I thought it would be a no brainer to use the 2 unused resources in Malaya to go to China to help the war effort there. Nope, those suckers are idle and so is the 2 convoy points.

The good news is I was able to fix it without too much trouble, but the point is you have to pay attention to what is going on.

Yes I agree, exactly same thing happened to me. Resource from Burma went to the UK. Resource from UK went to China. Used up 2 convoys points in a number of sea zones when none were needed. it was quickly fixed with a few default settings however.

[dhucul2011]

Well pauldernyck, I tried your method and it works great for turn one and for the non-oil.

As soon as you throw in trade agreements to trade oil and it falls apart.

Thanks for the information none the less!

I have come to the conclusion that the oil feature in MWIF is unplayable right now. It needs an overhaul to not only get the computer to make "logical" choices but to also clean up the interface and make it easier for the player to take control.

[paulderynck]

I have beta tested version 1.0.7 and there are some improvements that allow oil to be sent to locations of your choice and be saved there. This in turn allows idle resources to be sent instead. It also supports the players decision as to whether or not saved oil is sent to production.

However, Trade Agreements can still be a frustration unless you do them as absolutely the first thing in your planning!

Here is how you set up the resources you want to go to the recipient. In the example shown, the CW announced a lend of 2 resources and 1 oil to China. Note that the saved game did have sufficient CPs in the Bay of Bengal for the resources from Malaya to go to China. I have not tried this when the number of CPs is insufficient, so can't make any claims as to happiness in that case.

Edit: Note the order of the steps. I see now the diagram could have been made more intuitive, sorry.




Edit: After all the resources to go by trade have been selected, then do a Recompute.

[paulderynck]

I should add that I have yet to find a way for an oil resource to be sent to China and saved there. It is possible that the file I was working with had this issue because China's preliminary production planning had already been completed and thus their flag was grayed-out. Although you can click another country's flag and look at their plan, it appears you can only change it when it's that country's turn (or at least that's the case for resources received by trade), so it may be advisable to not click the "Close" on a major power, but rather keep skipping to the next until happy with all - and then Close them one-by-one.

Edit: So the one remaining concern with the plan in the file was that China produced with a resource and an oil and the other Malayan resource went idle and actually indicated "lost" in place when clicked on. Ideally the two resources would have been produced and the oil saved. But still this is much better than resources in Canada and the UK being auto-routed to China.

[Dabrion]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Caveat - when I was doing this it was a non-oil game. I need to play with doing the same if its an oil game as then it will be more complex due to attempts to save unused oil most efficiently. I built rough instructions into a picture below to go with this. I plan on making a more detailed tutorial document to post here.

When you first click the resource, depending what you tried before, there may be a Default or Override already - Clear them. When you are picking destinations for the resources, the possible ones that appear will be when the "Compute" option is on. Make sure you pick a destination with a factory you know is - so far - not producing. Now change the option from Compute to Default. I then clicked the Recompute button every time, but you may only have to do that once at the end, if you are confident you made all your changes correctly. Any unused resources should be defaulted to idle!

Now, as per the bottom portion of the form's Help info, you look at the route using the Route button and starting from the resource, you scan the sea zones it is going through. The first one you don't like, you right click on. Then below on the global map that shows in the form, you can left click on the name of the sea zone you prefer, then the next and the next. When you get to the last one and are pleased overall with that route. You click on the last one a second time and that locks the route as a default.

Be careful if using convoys from more than one major power that you don't use the same CPs as you did with the first major power. A major power always has first dibs on its own CPs.

Also as the Help File warns, if you use all defaults, then MWiF assumes all the CPs are where you need them. If you've goofed, you won't be advised. If your CP chains get zotted by enemy subs, you'll get another chance to pick up what pieces you can for this turn. To do this, when Preliminary Production comes up at the end of the turn you can set Override on some of the defaults. Defaults are always in play until changed. Overrides are for one turn only.

mind if I take that as a bad example in my next talk about ui design?

ty!