New Scenario: Piercing The Gothic Line

[ChrisMaiorana]

I've created a new scenario set in Italy called Piercing the Gothic Line. Details below:

Theater: Italy

Scenario Length: 2 days 14 hours 31 minutes

Scenario description: As the Allies commander: You command the 85th Division supported by the 91st division as they advance against the German army's "Gothic Line." Your orders are to take and hold the il Giogo pass and sweep away the German defenses on Mt. Verucca and Monticelli's southern slope.

As the Axis commander, you are in command of the tough, but weakened 12th FJ (paratrooper) regiment. You are dug in with amazing sight lines of the valley. Four artillery units are supporting your position and reinforcements are en route.

You can download the files for this scenario here.

[skarp]

hi CapHillrat
Thanks - I've played this as allies a couple of times now. I think it's fairly straight forward tactically and have won one marginal victory and lost another marginally. Given the situation by the end was pretty similar perhaps some point adjustments might help unless as designer you think this is a defeat.

[skarp]

ok some more games played. As allies, 2 defeats, two draws and a victory. Disappointed because I controlled Giogo Pass by game's end every time and inflicted 2492 casualties to my losses of 1555 over the 5 games. One mot flak bty proved incredible in defence one game by holding out for over 48 hours against 3 inf coys and only surrendering 20 mins before the end and when down to under 8 men! Enjoyable enough but I felt a bit cheated by the results I'm afraid - every game I spanked the AI. So overall a bit too hard to win as allies.

As Axis I've only played twice. Both times I won a decisive victory. First game inflicted 479 casualties at a cost of 189. For some reason there were no German reinforcements - I only had the starting 3(?) inf coys. Second time I got several extra coys on day 2 and played less carefully so lost 504 to his 459 but still a decisive win.

Thanks for making the scenario.

[ChrisMaiorana]

Thanks Skarp for your feedback. In real life it was a pretty hard fought battle. Along one stretch of the line, 80 German Paratroopers held back 3 battalions of American infantry. That said, I will look at adjusting it (perhaps with the addition of another objective in front of the pass). An earlier version of this scenario seemed too easy to win so I added some reinforcements based on what was historically available in the 12th FJ Regt AO and its played much harder. I am trying to find that balance between historical reality and enjoyment as the player and sometimes that's tough to pinpoint. Again thanks for your feedback it has been very helpful!

[Tophat1815]

Can Omar Bradly be edited to Mark Clark or Harold Alexander? Unless I'm mistaken Bradly was seeing the sights of France at this time.

[skarp]

You're welcome. I appreciate the game wants to be tough yet winnable - I don't think it's too far off and I found it easy enough to stave off the allies when defending. Though I panicked when I saw I had no reinforcements! I've saved all the end games as screen shots so if you'd like to see them I can post links.

I was wondering what would happen if you increased the VPs available for destroying the enemy - I think it may max out at 300-400 so perhaps I wasn't getting sufficient credit for kicking nazi butt. Or as you suggest add an extra allied AP forward of the pass - I regard these two hamlets in the screenshot as crucial for control of the pass or extra points for Giogo pass on completion. I really can't see higher command whether Bradley, Clark or whoever condemning me to the Cocos for gaining the pass at so little cost, maybe they're just scared I'd take their job!

[skarp]

btw I mentioned there were no reinforcements in one of my games played as axis. You've not commented. I have checked and I can confirm I got no help in the game below and I started a couple as axis and while one had a reinforcements the other had not.

[skarp]

no reinforcements

[ChrisMaiorana]

Hi Skarp. I have no idea why you didn't get reinforcements. I will look into it. Reinforcements are in the scenario though for both sides. I will also take a look at your victory points suggestion! I appreciate the feedback.

Chris

[RangerX3X]

You can manually select no reinforcements for both sides in this mission from the new scenario options panel (where you also select realism, weather, etc.), which is what I suspect is going on here. Every build I played of this scenario had a reinforcement schedule present.

[skarp]

The only thing wrong with this hypothesis is that I haven't manually selected "no reinforcements". [;)]

I have admittedly fat fingers but I generally never modify a scenario and I am not such a glutton for punishment as to wish to have had none even though I won. I've tried opening about a dozen new games as axis being careful and it's happened 4 more times - I surrendered immediately on them an the AAR reports reinforcements as standard - if I chose "no reinforcements" it says so in the AAR.

I'm not very familiar with scenario maker. Is it even possible to have reinforcements arrive or not arrive by random within the same basic scenario?

[skarp]

here's a link to a saved game with the problem that I've just started if that might help

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pe70dubqyry4a ... ements.cog

[RangerX3X]

skarp is correct: I checked the scenario file and the problem here seems to be that there is actually two reinforcement schedules for the Axis forces, one called "Standard", and then a second one called "Untitled" which contains no forces. Theoretically, anytime a standard schedule would be selected there would be a 50% chance of the scenario loading with no reinforcements (this is a trick used to actually set multiple "random" force dispositions at a scenario start). On four consecutive loads, I had reinforcements only twice.

I would suggest deleting the "Untitled" schedule:

[ChrisMaiorana]

Thanks Skarp and Ranger! I would never have thought to look at the schedule again to find the Untitled schedule.

I've updated the file and you can download it here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1qkem7b5ar7ojuy/Piercing%20The%20Gothic%20Line.cos

[Phoenix100]

You should try the scenmaker Skarp - adjust the scenario to suit your desires. It's very easy to use (with the manual, and ask in here if you get stuck) - even I could learn how to do it! And it's fun. Once you get bitten messing around you'll find yourself, most likely, altering every scenario there is to suit your own preferences. The things you suggest above, for example, are quite easily adjusted in the scenmaker.

Getting the things balanced is quite difficult, I've found (easy to learn how, but harder to get the changes that will achieve the 'balance' you feel is intuitively right and only when that should happen). I've found it easiest to 'balance' scenarios when setting them up just for one side - to be played as Allies only, for example. Don't you think that if you found it very easy to 'defeat' the Axis in the above scenario, that you shouldn't change it though, otherwise what's the point of playing, if you can 'win' so easily? I looked at the vic conditions for Allies and it looked good to me, so it's interesting that you only got a marginal defeat, despite sitting on the objectives. You would have to take and hold Veruca Outpost early to get full 20 points for it (most are given for occupation) but that's not true of the pass, or the others - mostly you would pick up full points there by just having them at close of play (and insufficient enemy within the VP circles to interfere with your control). And 20 points for killing the enemy looks generous enough, given control of the pass is the object. Can you post a screenie of the Objectives tab at end of play for the marginal defeat? Then we would be able to see just where you got points and where you didn't?

[Phoenix100]

I looked again at the VPs allocated and I think I see the 'problem'. Whilst the Allies are largely set up to be rewarded for occupation of the objectives at close of play (regardless of how long they have held them) - which seems right - the Axis are primarily rewarded for holding the objectives as long as possible, even if they lose them right at the end of the game. This seems right too, but it will lead to a situation where both sides do everything they 'should' and the result is that the Allies win all the objectives at the end, more or less, and even though that's all they can do to get full points, because the Axis have held on for long enough before giving in, they will also get full points - and a win is determined by comparing each sides points total - to get a win, or marginal or decisive win you have to get significantly more points than your opponent. So the only way to do this, as Allies, would be to actually kick the Axis right out of the objectives very early on and then hold them until the end, even though it doesn't look like the VP set up requires you to do this. Because that way is the only way to deprive the Axis of their points.

You could take 2 views of this - either decide it looks right, historically - or decide there's not much point in giving the Allies mainly completion points if the Axis get mainly occupation points. Personally, I would just split the available points even (between completion and occupation) for each objective for each side.

[RangerX3X]

Just did another play as the Axis and finally got a Decisive Victory:





Piercing the Gothic Line Axis AAR

[skarp]

RangerX3X looks like you've given the allies a good hiding [:D]

Phoenix- I've done enough now with scenario maker to modify to my taste but I wanted to play test this as is. Unfortunately I don't have a screen shot with the objectives and points visible or save of the game. I simply thought I done enough to win every occasion if the objective was to break through to Giogo pass and that Chris should know I felt a tad let down. I'm curious if the points for destroying the enemy are being awarded equally - I notice inflicting over 1000 casualties only got 17 points out of 20 in Ranger's game. I'll go check.

[ChrisMaiorana]

Hi guys. Thank you for the feedback!

I will take a look at the VPs (Phoenix I will look at splitting evenly). Historically this was a tough fight for the GIs assaulting these positions. Initially when Ranger and I playtested this, it seemed to me that the Allies were winning too handily. So we adjusted the Vps from a winner take all at scenario end to a blend with occupy points. This seemed too give the under-strength Germans more of a fighting chance. Skarp I am not sure what % I set the VPs at for enemy kills. Will take a look. I think it was 75%.

Chris

[skarp]

I wouldn't do too much yet Chris. Just cos I think I've won as allies doesn't mean higher command thinks I won. I should do better before I pass judgement. As for Axis I had a fairly easy time winning but again I've not really played it enough to be sure. Perhaps the AI will produce a better plan next time

Thanks for fixing the reinforcement issue [:)]