Now I am upset

[fbscheuer]

Just finished 3rd Herd as PBEM game. A forced finish, actually. He sustained 71% losses, while I had 39% losses, so sudden death kicked in.

The result? A disastrous defeat for me! And somehow I died as well, because my tragic death was referred to in the summary.

If he is so badly mauled that his units cannot function as a coherent force, then I think victory should be mine.

Grrr.

[76mm]

I had a similar result--several times--in this scenario (although I managed to dodge death!). It is a fun scenario but the Victory Conditions are whacked.

PS: Love your avatar...

[cbelva]

Be patient with Sudden death. It is going to be looked at in detail after the current patch that is currently being worked on. We realized that this is the most controversial aspect of the game. It was debated quite a bit in development. Sudden death is not going away, but the way it is scored hopefully will get an overhaul. An the option to keep playing for those who want to.

[Radagy]

Just one question about it. How is it that after beta testing you left this rule as it is?
I guess beta testers were a bit upset by Sudden Death too.
By the way I'm not arguing, just curious [;)]

[CapnDarwin]

Fair question. Same kind of issue you see here. A small number did not like it. Most testers understood what the rule was trying to do. Our issue was really being out of time to rework the mechanics if we were going to ship this year. It is not a broken mechanic. It needs to be refined to better reflect the end state of the game. We will do that after the next patch goes out and we break for the holidays. We have also stated that we will give you guys the option to play past the SD point as well.

[wodin]

I've found sudden death has saved me as much as done me over sometimes I'm praying for it..so it doesn't bother me too much.

[Panta_slith]

IMO the worse aspect of the sudden death trap is that it abruptly aborts the game, leaving the players with the feeling of something truncated. I was the "victorious" opponent of RR in the Herd scenario and was at the point of asking for the towel to be thrown into the ring when the game ended and I was declared the "winner". During the inspection of both sides' remaining units I realized that it wouldn't have been long before my remnant troops would be annihilated.
In my case don't care much about VPs, but having the game interrupted before time is really annoying.

[CapnDarwin]

Panta, this is why the option to continue until the time limit will be added. You will be able to resign the game under your terms.

[Panta_slith]

For me that will be enough. I consider myself satisfied if my objectives are achieved and defeated if not, or if my rival gets his'. But I guess that I have a different approach concerning victory or defeat.

[tide1530]

The option to continue the game is the important thing. All the times I've wanted that last turn [:)]

[wodin]

Though the time limit in many games is I feel way to long...usually most of the forces are destroyed before it's half way through. I think the length for the scenarios needs to be tweaked..

[Panta_slith]

I am not sure about it; taking into account that most turns are around 20-35 min long, a longer playing time gives enough time to conduct proper reconnaissance, sometimes I feel that I am too pressed to attack.

ORIGINAL: wodin

Though the time limit in many games is I feel way to long...usually most of the forces are destroyed before it's half way through. I think the length for the scenarios needs to be tweaked..

[Radagy]

The new option arises a question about balance.
A scenario tested and balanced for SD will be unbalanced playing to the end, that's a matter of fact.

[Radagy]

Proper reconnaissance is a matter that deserves a thread by itself. I will open one.

[Panta_slith]

You are right about that, a time limit has to be imposed, like in most R/L military operations.

ORIGINAL: Radagy

The new option arises a question about balance.
A scenario tested and balanced for SD will be unbalanced playing to the end, that's a matter of fact.

[Panta_slith]

Recon and counter recon is like a battle before the battle, as stated in the excellent "Art of Maneuver: Maneuver-Warfare Theory and Airland Battle", by Robert Leonhard, it is necessary to have time for it.
It is a good idea to open a thread about recon.

ORIGINAL: Radagy

Proper reconnaissance is a matter that deserves a thread by itself. I will open one.

[CapnDarwin]

Balance will be fine. The scoring matrix is based on total forces and owned VP locations at start. All you will do playing longer is gain or lose more points. It might be a double edged sword. [:D]

[wodin]

Really? Normally for me one force or another is wiped out with hours to go. Only the odd occasion I've gone near to the wire.

ORIGINAL: Panta

I am not sure about it; taking into account that most turns are around 20-35 min long, a longer playing time gives enough time to conduct proper reconnaissance, sometimes I feel that I am too pressed to attack.

ORIGINAL: wodin

Though the time limit in many games is I feel way to long...usually most of the forces are destroyed before it's half way through. I think the length for the scenarios needs to be tweaked..

[Mad Russian]

The scenario length was intentionally what I would consider long. That's because we don't all play the same. Panta is a great example. He wants even more time so he can do exhaustive recon. While I'm probably not going to go that route I'm not going to limit the time frame to what I can play the scenarios in and make the rest of you to hold to that.

The long times were for those that want to play a slower more cautious style of play with Sudden Death ending it if one side or the other gets the upper hand early.

Good Hunting.

MR

[wodin]

I get that but I think if your on the attack against the AI sometimes a tough time limit can be good.