Idiots Guide to Training Japanese Pilots?

[Coach Zuck]

Is there a semi-simple guide for setting up training for Japanese Pilots in AE?[&:]
Thinking of embarking on my 1st Grand Campaign in AE and realize I am way over my head economically and training pilot wise.
Using both Speedy & Damian's hints on economy [:)]but looking for Pilot training.

Thanks
Seth

[Coach Zuck]

FYI Played original WitP…..many scenarios and a few campaigns mainly as Japanese.

[Numdydar]

While this does not referance pilot training specificly, it might be worth a look for the economy and the impact pilot training has on it.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Coach Zuck

Is there a semi-simple guide for setting up training for Japanese Pilots in AE?[&:]

Point them towards a battleship and shout 'kamikaze' [;)]

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Coach Zuck

Is there a semi-simple guide for setting up training for Japanese Pilots in AE?[&:]
Thinking of embarking on my 1st Grand Campaign in AE and realize I am way over my head economically and training pilot wise.
Using both Speedy & Damian's hints on economy [:)]but looking for Pilot training.

Thanks
Seth

Very simply,

• set them to train in the role the a/c was designed for
• 100% training
• set the range to zero
• commander should have good stats in leadership and moral
• put them in a large well stocked base
• give them a full complement of man and aircraft
• leave them for a month or two.

[jmalter]

hi Coach Z,

Chris H has given good advice, but I'd like to add a coupla' things:
- set altitude at 5k', to keep fatigue low. Set altitude at 100' when training Fighters for Sweep Mission, this increases their Def & Straf skills.
- when a Fighter group reaches Air skill in the high 60's, switch from 100% Training to 50%CAP/50%Train, keep alt at 5k' & rng=0. Fighters on CAP will gain Exp, at no cost to supply.
- as far as possible, click-fest your air-groups to keep each group's pilot-Exp within 5 points of each other. If a group has half its pilots w/ 70-Exp, & half w/ 40-Exp, only the lower-Exp pilots gain from Training.
- while keeping Training consonant w/ a group's type is usually best, you can sometimes train in an out-of-bounds mode. For instance, if a Fighter group has planes that can carry bombs, they'll happily train for Ground/Airfield/Port Attack. The prob is, after they're trained & you transfer them to Reserve - they'll still be 'Fighter' pilots - so don't exclude them when you're trying to fill a Bomber airgroup w/ trained pilots from Reserve.
- Some skills are airframe-type specific - for instance you can only train pilots for NavT if they're flying planes that can carry torps. So, you must keep some torp-capable airgroups back from the front lines, to train newb pilots in NavT.
- finally, training takes time! 2 months to get a group of newbs into basic shape (usable in combat only in emergencies), 2 more months to fine-tune them.
- & then there's the cross-training - a Carrier-trained group of dive-bombers needs good NavB skill, but will benefit from training in NavSearch. Carrier Torpos must have optimal NavT skill, but should train for NavB, to retain effectiveness when their CV has exhausted its torp load.

IMO, the optimal value for any particular skill is '70'. Pilots w/ Exp & Skill > 70 are truly combat-capable, 60's guys are usable, but 50's guys are minimal, they won't do well.

[Puhis]

There's a good advices. Most important thing is to decide how many units are used for training and combat. If you're playing historical scenario, this is a real dilemma. When I was newbie japanese player, I did not understand how many pilots you're going to loose...

So it's important to start pilot training day 1. Nowadays I even use early Zero/Oscar units to train pilots. Early allies are weak, Japan don't even need every unit with good fighter plane. Espeacially if allies are playing Sir Robin, it's useless to sweep empty bases.

One more thing: you can use float plane units to train IJN fighter or bomber pilots. There's couple big restricted float plane units in Japan that I use training dive bomber and fighter pilots. Pilots loose couple exp point when changing plane model, but it's not a big deal.

[Numdydar]

The real important thing is to NOT expect miricles by training pilots. Will it help, yes. Will it effect the ulitimate outcome No. So just be aware of this as well.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: jmalter


IMO, the optimal value for any particular skill is '70'. Pilots w/ Exp & Skill > 70 are truly combat-capable, 60's guys are usable, but 50's guys are minimal, they won't do well.

Aiming for exp 70 is way to high for Japan, you will run out of trained pilots. for me 55 is a good average.

[FeurerKrieg]

I tend to train up to the 50-60 range (60 in early war, lowering the standard as pilot needed increase later) but before they go off to the 'front lines' I'll put them on active duty for a month or so in a secondary theater like China where they can get a few more point of experience.

Seems to me that they can get to 60ish easily enough, but training takes a long time to go beyond that. Combat action works well to get them up to 70. However, main front action is usually too hazardous for 60 exp pilots - thus secondary theater is good for them.

[geofflambert]

Carrier planes also need to be proficient in naval search and as soon as you can train them up on ASW too. Use float plane squadrons to train in these skills. You can also use them to train fighter pilots in sweep. Most of the float plane squadrons (Petes, Daves, Alfs and Jakes) can be expanded on a CS like Chiyoda or Chitose. In the case of those two you can increase the sqd. to 24 planes. After doing so it's often useful to divide them into 3. Definitely build more Jakes and perhaps more Alfs, but also use up the engines that go into the Glens, you start out with about a hundred of those. You need those planes for the subs that carry float planes, but in the meantime you can fill up regular squadrons with them as trainers. When (and if) the KB returns to the home islands, there are some squadrons that can be expanded up to the capacity of one of the CVs. Divide these and leave the "A" detachment at home as a training sqd. . It will also act as a cadre to rebuild with should you lose one of the other divisions at sea. Before you know it you'll have drawn the entire replacement pool for the IJN and be dipping into the still in training classes.

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: Coach Zuck

Is there a semi-simple guide for setting up training for Japanese Pilots in AE?[&:]
Thinking of embarking on my 1st Grand Campaign in AE and realize I am way over my head economically and training pilot wise.
Using both Speedy & Damian's hints on economy [:)]but looking for Pilot training.

Thanks
Seth

Very simply,

• set them to train in the role the a/c was designed for
• 100% training
• set the range to zero
• commander should have good stats in leadership and moral
• put them in a large well stocked base
• give them a full complement of man and aircraft
• leave them for a month or two.

Is it proven to have a leader with good leadership skills? No one has "moral, or morale" skills in the game. lol

I have heard of this, but has anyone showed actually results? I would much rather have a stud in the plane on the front lines.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

Yes leadership and Inspiration helps alot. Take that leader from the Yamada detachment in one squadron and one with bad skills into an other. After a month you will see a difference already

[geofflambert]

For the army pilots, use most of your transport planes to do "general training". That's after you have a decent pool of pilots well trained in transport operations. The pilots in general training will also improve in their defensive skills nicely, and it's not just fighter crews that need that skill. Unfortunately, the IJN doesn't have much in the way of transports to do this with, and likely they'll be busy with other tasks. Don't use those four engine Mavises or Emilys as trainers!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hi Coach Z,

Chris H has given good advice, but I'd like to add a coupla' things:
- set altitude at 5k', to keep fatigue low. Set altitude at 100' when training Fighters for Sweep Mission, this increases their Def & Straf skills.
- when a Fighter group reaches Air skill in the high 60's, switch from 100% Training to 50%CAP/50%Train, keep alt at 5k' & rng=0. Fighters on CAP will gain Exp, at no cost to supply.
- as far as possible, click-fest your air-groups to keep each group's pilot-Exp within 5 points of each other. If a group has half its pilots w/ 70-Exp, & half w/ 40-Exp, only the lower-Exp pilots gain from Training.
- while keeping Training consonant w/ a group's type is usually best, you can sometimes train in an out-of-bounds mode. For instance, if a Fighter group has planes that can carry bombs, they'll happily train for Ground/Airfield/Port Attack. The prob is, after they're trained & you transfer them to Reserve - they'll still be 'Fighter' pilots - so don't exclude them when you're trying to fill a Bomber airgroup w/ trained pilots from Reserve.
- Some skills are airframe-type specific - for instance you can only train pilots for NavT if they're flying planes that can carry torps. So, you must keep some torp-capable airgroups back from the front lines, to train newb pilots in NavT.
- finally, training takes time! 2 months to get a group of newbs into basic shape (usable in combat only in emergencies), 2 more months to fine-tune them.
- & then there's the cross-training - a Carrier-trained group of dive-bombers needs good NavB skill, but will benefit from training in NavSearch. Carrier Torpos must have optimal NavT skill, but should train for NavB, to retain effectiveness when their CV has exhausted its torp load.

IMO, the optimal value for any particular skill is '70'. Pilots w/ Exp & Skill > 70 are truly combat-capable, 60's guys are usable, but 50's guys are minimal, they won't do well.

Only one thing to add that differs. Strafing in game terms is a totally useless skill. This is especially true for Japanese aircraft which are fragile and do not carry enough guns or bombs to make is worth it. If you move into Da Babes where AA values are much higher then....well, just don't try it. Even with Allied fighters and fighter bombers I found strafing to be way under powered, making planes such as the excellent Beaufighter all but worthless. It is best to train up your bombers and fighters in low bombing as my tests show that it is always the bomb that matters. However, using any plane at low altitude vs a well defended hex is not very productive. It is a tough one to accept but the role of fighter bombers is very limited all throughout the war.

[Cribtop]

Early war I find 70 EXP to be obtainable, and it allows for more "Golden Boys" to be pulled into reserve for the later days. As the war advances, I lower my expectations. When this happens varies depending on the situation, but early '43 is about the median.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hi Coach Z,

Chris H has given good advice, but I'd like to add a coupla' things:
- set altitude at 5k', to keep fatigue low. Set altitude at 100' when training Fighters for Sweep Mission, this increases their Def & Straf skills.

Only one thing to add that differs. Strafing in game terms is a totally useless skill. This is especially true for Japanese aircraft which are fragile and do not carry enough guns or bombs to make is worth it. If you move into Da Babes where AA values are much higher then....well, just don't try it. Even with Allied fighters and fighter bombers I found strafing to be way under powered, making planes such as the excellent Beaufighter all but worthless. It is best to train up your bombers and fighters in low bombing as my tests show that it is always the bomb that matters. However, using any plane at low altitude vs a well defended hex is not very productive. It is a tough one to accept but the role of fighter bombers is very limited all throughout the war.

Not much to differ there though. Sweep@100 is the fastest way to train up def skill, and this is what you want. Strafe skill increase is a 'sideffect' of training up def.

LowG is the skill of choice for using fighters in a ground attack role. The do pack a punch when pilots are trained up and interdict quite nicely when the ground units are not located at base hexes and/or supported by dedicated AA.

Also I note that the impact of continuous (strafing) attacks on diruption/fatigue/morale of a ground unit is often either neglected or underestimated, although admittedly, since it is only a cost effective tactic against exposed/isolated or second rate units, this usually only is of minor use.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hi Coach Z,

Chris H has given good advice, but I'd like to add a coupla' things:
- set altitude at 5k', to keep fatigue low. Set altitude at 100' when training Fighters for Sweep Mission, this increases their Def & Straf skills.

Only one thing to add that differs. Strafing in game terms is a totally useless skill. This is especially true for Japanese aircraft which are fragile and do not carry enough guns or bombs to make is worth it. If you move into Da Babes where AA values are much higher then....well, just don't try it. Even with Allied fighters and fighter bombers I found strafing to be way under powered, making planes such as the excellent Beaufighter all but worthless. It is best to train up your bombers and fighters in low bombing as my tests show that it is always the bomb that matters. However, using any plane at low altitude vs a well defended hex is not very productive. It is a tough one to accept but the role of fighter bombers is very limited all throughout the war.

Not much to differ there though. Sweep@100 is the fastest way to train up def skill, and this is what you want. Strafe skill increase is a 'sideffect' of training up def.

LowG is the skill of choice for using fighters in a ground attack role. The do pack a punch when pilots are trained up and interdict quite nicely when the ground units are not located at base hexes and/or supported by dedicated AA.

Also I note that the impact of continuous (strafing) attacks on diruption/fatigue/morale of a ground unit is often either neglected or underestimated, although admittedly, since it is only a cost effective tactic against exposed/isolated or second rate units, this usually only is of minor use.

With respect to the IJ and LowG, I would tend to agree more with crsutton on this. Allies have several fighter/FB's that can do really well in a low ground role. IJ? A very, very few models that are suited and hard to justify building them because "since it is only a cost effective tactic against exposed/isolated or second rate units, this usually only is of minor use".

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hi Coach Z,

Chris H has given good advice, but I'd like to add a coupla' things:
- set altitude at 5k', to keep fatigue low. Set altitude at 100' when training Fighters for Sweep Mission, this increases their Def & Straf skills.

Only one thing to add that differs. Strafing in game terms is a totally useless skill. This is especially true for Japanese aircraft which are fragile and do not carry enough guns or bombs to make is worth it. If you move into Da Babes where AA values are much higher then....well, just don't try it. Even with Allied fighters and fighter bombers I found strafing to be way under powered, making planes such as the excellent Beaufighter all but worthless. It is best to train up your bombers and fighters in low bombing as my tests show that it is always the bomb that matters. However, using any plane at low altitude vs a well defended hex is not very productive. It is a tough one to accept but the role of fighter bombers is very limited all throughout the war.

Not much to differ there though. Sweep@100 is the fastest way to train up def skill, and this is what you want. Strafe skill increase is a 'sideffect' of training up def.

LowG is the skill of choice for using fighters in a ground attack role. The do pack a punch when pilots are trained up and interdict quite nicely when the ground units are not located at base hexes and/or supported by dedicated AA.

Also I note that the impact of continuous (strafing) attacks on diruption/fatigue/morale of a ground unit is often either neglected or underestimated, although admittedly, since it is only a cost effective tactic against exposed/isolated or second rate units, this usually only is of minor use.

Yep, was not aware that it gave such a boost to def skills. Learn something new with every post...

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

ORIGINAL: crsutton





Only one thing to add that differs. Strafing in game terms is a totally useless skill. This is especially true for Japanese aircraft which are fragile and do not carry enough guns or bombs to make is worth it. If you move into Da Babes where AA values are much higher then....well, just don't try it. Even with Allied fighters and fighter bombers I found strafing to be way under powered, making planes such as the excellent Beaufighter all but worthless. It is best to train up your bombers and fighters in low bombing as my tests show that it is always the bomb that matters. However, using any plane at low altitude vs a well defended hex is not very productive. It is a tough one to accept but the role of fighter bombers is very limited all throughout the war.

Not much to differ there though. Sweep@100 is the fastest way to train up def skill, and this is what you want. Strafe skill increase is a 'sideffect' of training up def.

LowG is the skill of choice for using fighters in a ground attack role. The do pack a punch when pilots are trained up and interdict quite nicely when the ground units are not located at base hexes and/or supported by dedicated AA.

Also I note that the impact of continuous (strafing) attacks on diruption/fatigue/morale of a ground unit is often either neglected or underestimated, although admittedly, since it is only a cost effective tactic against exposed/isolated or second rate units, this usually only is of minor use.

With respect to the IJ and LowG, I would tend to agree more with crsutton on this. Allies have several fighter/FB's that can do really well in a low ground role. IJ? A very, very few models that are suited and hard to justify building them because "since it is only a cost effective tactic against exposed/isolated or second rate units, this usually only is of minor use".

Yes, it depends on the situation. But with a good Japanese player who is able to field a tough air force, Allied sweeps at low levels can be very dangerous. Even the best pilots caught low by Japanese fighters will be shredded. I personally found that it was not worth the risk (no less for the AA losses and fatigue and morale hits.) But my experience was with a scenario 2 campaign so it may differ with others. Basically, I was facing so many Japanese fighters up until the end that I rarely had the luxury to use my own Allied fighters for anything but fighting other fighters.

Years ago I ran a bunch of tests using fighters, fighter bombers and attack bombers at low level and medium levels. What I discovered was that gun armament really had little effect and what mattered with strafing attacks was the power of the bombs carried by the plane. So, an awesome looking platform like the beaufighter was relatively ineffective with its pitiful 250 lb bombs while A P40 with a 500 pound bomb was a little more effective and an attack bomber was pretty deadly. However, I discovered that medium bombers set to bomb at 6,000 feet were almost as effective and much safer from ground fire. Basically, unless the enemy has no AA defense I found it was better to just bomb from altitude which I do 90% of the time.

Second generation fighters with their big bombs are very effective but as I said, faced with hundreds of second generation Japanese fighters, I never really got to use them for ground attack.