an idea about the bermuda triangle

[joshuamnave]

I was looking through the AI threads and I noticed something in the China thread. Steve posted an early version of the China map in which initial hex control is different from hex control in the final version of the game. Some of those hexes are in the Bermuda triangle. Is it possible that when they were recoded for Japanese control, something was missed, something that makes the supply subroutine think they are still Chinese controlled hexes?

[AxelNL]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

I was looking through the AI threads and I noticed something in the China thread. Steve posted an early version of the China map in which initial hex control is different from hex control in the final version of the game. Some of those hexes are in the Bermuda triangle. Is it possible that when they were recoded for Japanese control, something was missed, something that makes the supply subroutine think they are still Chinese controlled hexes?

Do you have the post number? I will use that theory in testing.

[joshuamnave]

post #17622 In the map shown, Nanchang, the hex SE and the hex E of it are all shown as Chinese controlled at the start. They are now Japanese controlled, and that is the area where the supply problems are happening.

[AxelNL]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

post #17622 In the map shown, Nanchang, the hex SE and the hex E of it are all shown as Chinese controlled at the start. They are now Japanese controlled, and that is the area where the supply problems are happening.

tanx, as soon as the overseas HQ supply bug is solved I will start to narrow this down. Before is difficult to analyse what is which problem.

[AxelNL]

you mean this map?





This is indeed exactly the Bermuda Triangle area......

[joshuamnave]

err no, I was looking at the wrong thing. Posts 7 8 and 9

Yah, that map

[joshuamnave]

Can now confirm that the recent patch to fix overseas supply did not fix the Bermuda triangle. Haven't yet tested the overseas supply, but assuming that is now working, the two are definitely distinct issues.

[AxelNL]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Can now confirm that the recent patch to fix overseas supply did not fix the Bermuda triangle. Haven't yet tested the overseas supply, but assuming that is now working, the two are definitely distinct issues.

Steve fixed not all supply bugs yet in this release! e.g. we have some situations in France where the HQ was in supply, but the unit drawing supply from that HQ unit not after movement (but was in supply after save-reload).

I will see if I can pick up the hunt for the mysterious Bermuda Triangle bug now. I agree with you that it probably is geography related. However - I have been wrong many times when guessing what the reason was during betatesting. There is so much logic happening in this beast of an application that a bug can be really good hidden.

[AxelNL]

Both Jap HQ's in China are still getting themselves out of supply when e.g. the one in Manchuria rails closer to the front. That bug is still there.
The triangle does not behave different than a Jap HQ somewhere else until now - that is slightly promising. Reload/Save works still as a workaround. We need to wait until the aforementioned bug is fixed before searching further into the Bermude Triangle.

[brian brian]

I like the idea of adding some "Roads" to the map of China, via using the large rivers. This is historical I would imagine.

But river transport in a war-game is not as completely simple thing to code as a rail line. A river on a hex based map lies on a hex side. Then you need rules on using the river. Enemy occupation of a hex with one of the River-Road hexsides should close the use of the river for tracing supply lines, rail movement lines, resource shipping lines.

But does a mere enemy ZoC into a hex that you control, but don't occupy, but has a River-Road hex side, then block use of the River-Road?

That would need to be addressed via rules language. And then coding. Previously, the only such River-Road in the game was on the map of Africa, extremely unlikely to see Zone of Control questions along the banks, and thus I don't believe such a question was ever addressed.

I have been wondering if such questions might be contributing to the Bermuda Triangle problem.



Also, two lakes in the area … might freeze (then ZoCs cross the lake)? Or might not ever? One small portion of them includes a weather boundary line. More tricky stuff there.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

I was looking through the AI threads and I noticed something in the China thread. Steve posted an early version of the China map in which initial hex control is different from hex control in the final version of the game. Some of those hexes are in the Bermuda triangle. Is it possible that when they were recoded for Japanese control, something was missed, something that makes the supply subroutine think they are still Chinese controlled hexes?

Hex control in China at the start of a game varies depending on the scenario. I expect that is what you are seeing.

[GaPete_slith]

Guys I've encountered yet another Bermuda Triangle. It's still Japanese and this time it's Manchuria. Does the exact same thing that happens down around Nanchang.

[AxelNL]

ORIGINAL: GaPete

Guys I've encountered yet another Bermuda Triangle. It's still Japanese and this time it's Manchuria. Does the exact same thing that happens down around Nanchang.

Can you post screenshots or the gamesave , please?

[joshuamnave]

I've got a new theory, at least for part of the problem. The game doesn't appear to recognize the rail lines in a hex until the end of the turn in which it is captured. This includes resource transportation (which is functionally unaffected, since the rail lines go online before production planning). Reloading the game fixes the problem for the duration of the current phase (or until supply is checked again, at which point another reload becomes necessary).

[AxelNL]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

I've got a new theory, at least for part of the problem. The game doesn't appear to recognize the rail lines in a hex until the end of the turn in which it is captured. This includes resource transportation (which is functionally unaffected, since the rail lines go online before production planning). Reloading the game fixes the problem for the duration of the current phase (or until supply is checked again, at which point another reload becomes necessary).

one of the 9 lives we need to kill, I'm afraid. I have found 2 cases where capturing rail is not applicable.
If you can give me gamesaves form earlier + how to reproduce I will take them with me for the supply release. I found out that I can reproduce a Triangle bug which normally does not show by a reload at the start of the movement phase by saving earlier at the DOW phase and redo the phases in between.

[GaPete_slith]

Something that may or may not be related to the Bermuda Triangle. I've encountered a similar problem with US forces in Brazil. It was only a couple of units and I double checked and rechecked, they should have been in supply. Hell, one of them was sitting in the hex right next to it's HQ which was in supply. I did a move and then an undo and then, poof, suddenly all of the units were in supply. This struck me as very similar to the Bermuda Triangle problem in China. The only real difference, that was the one and only time that it happened.

[michaelbaldur]

there is also one in east Australia.

all 3 are known to steve and the testers.

so I sure they are fixed soon

[AxelNL]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


there is also one in east Australia.

all 3 are known to steve and the testers.

so I sure they are fixed soon

First the version for blocking issues. It looks like the 3-div reforming bug is tackled in that one.
Than we can focus on the rest of the supply bug.