Playtest Orel 1943 vs. KI

[Cfant]

Hi everyone!

General Cfant has been called back from retirement. A high OKH officer, codename Ogar, speaks of a major Sovjet offensive against Orel bulge. Desperate times, when even a Cfant is given a command [:D]
However, I will playtest Ogars new scenario, which is still under development. I chose the axis, but will give the sovjets a try afterwards.

It's a rather short (22 days = 22 turns) and I start with only 69 counters, so it's not so time consuming

[Cfant]

We are on turn 4. The line held the first two days, but then the massiv sovjet armored battlegroups achieved several breakthroughs. While the german landsers put a fierce and brave fight ([&o]), attrition and shere numbers of the Red Army cause a rising blood toll.
A over-confident local commander followed a retreating tank unit, opening a path for the eastern hordes (a RBC is not always a good thing [8|]).
However, a retreat is out of the question [:-] The fast motorized sovjet troops would easily overhelm our men on the run. Even more important, we would have to abandon our well prepared positions here (a lot of 500/800% hexes [X(]) and we would never again get our guys to "f" status, I guess [:'(]
So it's stand and fight for our men, "Position halten ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste" - "hold positions, not matter what cost".
Thanks to mars and the scenario designer, we still have an ace or two in our hands - the much feared german panzers. They may be a shadow of former days, but hey, you take what you get. [;)]

In the west, the SturmgeschützAbteilung 203 will start a local counterstrike, while units of the 18. PanzerDivision will try an even more ambitious plan in den middle. In the east, I'm quite confident to seal the broken line this turn too.




Reinforcements are on the way, but missing railways it's a long march for our grenadiers. [>:]

Losses are a reason to worry about. Our infantry has suffered. Although the russian losses are much higher (rating 5:43), I fear their replacement-rates will outnumber ours by far.



One of the main problems is, that I never know, if I / Stavka will have two turns a row or not - it makes it quite hard to plan things... But then, it's war - things tend to be uncertain in such times [:D]

[Cfant]

The Sovjets seem surprised of our counterattacks - they suffer a lot



Blue circles: success in the first attack, blue circles: success in the second attack



After turn 5 played, the front is reestablished. But now it's Russias turn (5), so things will not stay so pleasent



Please note the black circles in the last screenshot - at least we can build up some reserves. I guess we will need them

[Cfant]

The Sovjets are not comfortable with the situation - they launch an all out assault on our positions! [X(] Within two days, our lines are breached again (the KI now has a double-move). And some magic way Elmer always has 5-6 combat turns... [:@]

On the other side: The loss-ratio is not working in favor of the red army. Here two of many battles these days:



and



Maybe it's Elmers overstacking, that causes him such losses?

Two german regiments are evaporated, but this comes at a price: A Sovjet Tank Corps faces the same fate.



And so, after the russian and before the german turn 6, we face a grim, but not hopeless situation:

[ogar]

Nice AAR - thanks for doing this.

Actually, your T6 situation is not bad at all -- much better than my average standings after 5 or 6 turns.  The longer the German player can reasonably fight it out near the original front-line, the better for him.  The key here is to know when to retreat so as to preserve most of your infantry units.

For both sides, replacements are very thin - although OKH has a little better edge in some items.  Mostly, each side depends upon those reinforcements - and on not evaporating their own units.  (Happens to me even when I try ML, but it hurts a lot.)  Of course, there are lots of reinforcements for STAVKA - so that side can afford to lose a few of their units vs OKH.

Losses to the Soviet attacks are heavy partly due to over-stacking (it's not only Elmer who will over stack), and, __I think__, due to low unit proficiency .  Not sure why that should affect the loss ratio, but Soviet units have markedly lower prof. than OKH.

Good luck ! 

[Cfant]

Well, maybe I'm just lucky But look for yourself:

A Sovjet doubleturn crushes our defensive line:



Of course, we counterattack once more. The Russians seem even more torn down than our exhausted troops...



Russian evaporations are rising, a tank corps and several RDs give up...



At the end of turn 8 the front is reestablished (more or less ).



I don't know how many reinforcements the Sovjets still get, but from my feeling he is slowly running out of steam. The next turn the russian attacks did not much harm to the axis, but suffered deeply. My confidence grows, that I can hold the line more or less - well, depending, what Stalin still throws into battle

[Cfant]

One more issue: I use opart 3XBb. The Sovjets always attack my air bases. Although there is a lot of flak, it NEVER takes part in the fighting. Example:



3XBb should include a flak-fix, right?

[Cfant]

Halftime

Front at beginning of turn 12:



My losses:



As a houserule, I never advance over the frontline from turn 1. I think Elmer would have problems with small bypassing units.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Cfant2

One more issue: I use opart 3XBb. The Sovjets always attack my air bases. Although there is a lot of flak, it NEVER takes part in the fighting. Example:



3XBb should include a flak-fix, right?

It does have the Flak and the 'ignore losses' fix, aye. Now, alter Cfant, which scenario version are ya's playing? I did a few turns with 0.55 and the Russkies just seem to shift troops along their front and all attacks have been repulsed so far.

Klink, Oberst

[ogar]

Hey, maybe some of that luck is skill !

Elmer is running out of steam - without making that inital break-through(s) 3 or 4 hexes deep, all he'll do is hit the fortified wall again and again. You may have found a weak spot in design (I've been focused on getting the Germans to not be so collapsible - now I need to revisit the other side.)

Soviet artillery divisions and most engineer units are in garrison mode now, so that's even less power behind assaults.

Your losses looks about average - unless I'm disasterously commanding -- if the Soviets were not run down, they'd be making deep inroads, as your units grow weaker and more tired.

[Cfant]

Melde gehorsamst, Herr Oberst: I'm playing v 0.60. It's turn 15 now, and Elmer would be open for a counter offensive. I don't think, he will overthrow my defensive line anymore. Several tank units evaporated last turn; his attacks do not much harm now. Mr. Adolf H. will be pleased



@Flak-bug: It's defenitly opart 3XBb, but the flak did not take part in the fighting. Not a single time! It would be mentioned in the combat report, I think?

[ogar]

About those air attacks --

here's a snip of my test -- with 3xB of a Soviet strike against Orel air bases. Notice the flak units participate. I also checked with a quick turn of the Cherbourg scenario under 3xB, and there, too, the flak participates against the air strikes. ?Maybe the Orel just took the day off as the JGs seem to have the job in hand ?

[Cfant]

ORIGINAL: ogar

Hey, maybe some of that luck is skill !

Elmer is running out of steam - without making that inital break-through(s) 3 or 4 hexes deep, all he'll do is hit the fortified wall again and again. You may have found a weak spot in design (I've been focused on getting the Germans to not be so collapsible - now I need to revisit the other side.)

Soviet artillery divisions and most engineer units are in garrison mode now, so that's even less power behind assaults.

Your losses looks about average - unless I'm disasterously commanding -- if the Soviets were not run down, they'd be making deep inroads, as your units grow weaker and more tired.

Can you send me a sal of one of your playtests? Maybe about turn 5? I'd like to compare

[ogar]

And just for comparison, here's a snip of my turn 12 test against the Axis PO. (I was testing out the new TO and its options.) As you can see, advance units are threatening Bryansk while Bolkhov still stands -- for now.

[Cfant]

Did Elmer defend his starting positions? He tends to abandon strong places without need even if loosing f-status

[Cfant]

I thought about the problem with Elmer. As you say - he needs a powerful initial punch. Maybe the 500/88% Hexes are too strong? Maybe reduce them to 200/300%? Making RUssia much stronger could be a problem in PBEMs, I guess. I remember, that Telumar made two versions of his Anzio-scenario: One for pBEM, one for PO This would avoid some problems - but, of course, would be additional work...

[Cfant]

Brought it to an end. On turn 24 the Sovjets broke off their offensive. Front line at the end:



Harsh Soviet losses. Their main infantry (Strel. Squads - what is this?): 6044. Tanks: 802 T-34 late (and several hundert other tanks).

Well, the PO has not achieved a breakthrough - so the game was decided early. I guess, the Soviet PO would be better, if the german defensive positions had no 500/800 hexes, but "only" 200/300 hexes. In Pbem, of course, that could prove deadly for the axis side.

In the end a fast paced and very interesting scenario. Thank you, Ogar, very well done! [&o]

[Cfant]

I now startet a new game, this time agains axis PO.

The picture of the start of turn 3:



Elmer did, what he always tends to do: fierce counterattacks, doing some harme - but weakening up his defenses. Several units lost their "f" status after axis turn 1 - so on turn 2 the breakthrough was achieved.

[Cfant]

Situation before my first combat round, turn 4:



I do not think, that a scenario designer can do much here. Elmer doesn't handle a defensive well

[Cfant]

If you look the development between end of turn 3 and first combat round on turn 4, you see how fast the soviet troops are. The breakthrough was exploitet very quickly.

Turn 5:



Turn 9:



Turn 12:



I played very fast without much planning, but still: The german PO puts a much harder fight than the soviet PO. Soviet troops are prey to german counterattacks - even against the PO (and please take into account the heavy german losses in the first few turns), it is a soviet race against time.
Having played both sides against the PO, I no longer think the Soviets are the stronger side. I will most likely win this in time, but a human opponent would not have sacrificed his tanks so easily and - even more important - would defend the VP-hexes to the last. I have lost 290 T-34 already, leaving 680 in service. With only 9 turns remaining, I will have to hurry, as german roadblocks (even if set by coincidence by Elmer ) take quite a while to destroy/bypass. So, it's even more thrilling than playing the axis - didn't expect that after my initial success as Soviet [X(]