NONSENSE!! Air Combat Idiocy.

[chazz]

A B-17 formation attacked a Japanese port; intercepted by one Claude. Said Claude drove off 3 B-17s.

Bullcrap.

Generally speaking, when Japanese fighters mixed it up with B-17's they had their butts handed to them in a high hat.

[richlove]

Usual questions: Morale of the B-17s? Combat report? Experience of their pilots? Leader stats? Weather? Same questions for the Claude group.

You say 'generally speaking' but are surprised when the opposite happens. How many times have you had a near-identical situation and the B-17s DID drive off the fighters?

[Erkki]

Drove off how? I've never seen 4Es turn back. I think its in the code... If they have enough morale to fly they'll go all the way.

I've seen an A5M4 shoot down a B-17D once, it was over Bedeloap in a head-on attack. Nice shooting Tex!

[chazz]

Well, they did. The combat report said "element of such and such group turns back".

I had no idea that B17 E pilots were so akin to Italian infantry after 2nd Alamein. Morale for one group is 49, the other 52. Commanders have +50 inspiration, leadership. Didn't matter, I sacked them both after that. I doubt that it will make a difference.

Too bad you can't disband the group and send them all to Nome "per encourage les autres."

Sorry....I had to vent.

But it's still B.S.

[Yaab]

Consider: a low morale group of B-17s against Claudes. Claudes use frontal attacks against the 4Es. Early B-17s have only ONE .50 MG in Front position. The attacking Claudes cannot be hit by returning fire from the bombers because of their high manoeuvrability. Damaging hits start piling up on the B-17s. Finally, some of them turn back even though air group leader has high Aggressiveness. Happened to me in early war when my B-17s attacked Canton.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Erkki

Drove off how? I've never seen 4Es turn back. I think its in the code... If they have enough morale to fly they'll go all the way.

I've seen an A5M4 shoot down a B-17D once, it was over Bedeloap in a head-on attack. Nice shooting Tex!

The Ds are actually pretty vulnerable due to a lack of a tail gun. I loose them all the time.

Since you get a limited supply of them and no replacements...why not use them up?

[Gaspote]

50 morale is really bad, you won't see them turning back if they get at least 80.

[Bullwinkle58]

49 Morale is BAD.

[Yaab]

Another example: eight B-17s with morale > 80 facing 13 Japanese fighters. Four B-17s are lost in air combat, the rest presses the attack home and bombs the target. So, even 50% losses were not enough to turn them back.

Remember, for bombers what counts is durability + morale. 99 morale folks in durability 65 planes are simply unstoppable.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

49 Morale is BAD.

This.

[chazz]

So do I disband the group?

Essentially, they're a drain on supplies.

The Claude was a decent plane, but an FW-190 it was not.

[Lowpe]

Those pilots had been reading/living Catch-22.

[crsutton]

I never fly my bombers with morale that bad. You are citing one event in a simulation that might have over a million before you are done. I recommend that you come back when you detect a pattern. I read of a incident where a Japanese officer jumped into the open top of an allied tank with his samurai sword creating all sorts of havoc until he was gunned down by a crewman. But it only happened once. Do you see where I am going with this? [;)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: chazz

So do I disband the group?

Do you throw your car away the first time it needs an oil change?

Try some Rest.

[KenchiSulla]

Before declaring a combat result unrealistic or wrong, go through the entire setup once more... Very likely you will find the factor that caused the "unexpected result". If you look at the game like this you will be less frustrated and less prone to repeating mistakes...

[chazz]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I never fly my bombers with morale that bad. You are citing one event in a simulation that might have over a million before you are done. I recommend that you come back when you detect a pattern. I read of a incident where a Japanese officer jumped into the open top of an allied tank with his samurai sword creating all sorts of havoc until he was gunned down by a crewman. But it only happened once. Do you see where I am going with this? [;)]

Yes, I can see where you are going with this.

Which brings me to a useful question to an otherwise useless thread...

How do I improve the morale of a dismal misfit group?

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: chazz

So do I disband the group?

Essentially, they're a drain on supplies.

The Claude was a decent plane, but an FW-190 it was not.

I guess the Claudes are attacking from upper front and peppering B-17 cockpit with their CL 7.7mm MGs. No wonder some strung-out pilots turned back.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: chazz

So do I disband the group?

Essentially, they're a drain on supplies.

The Claude was a decent plane, but an FW-190 it was not.

How many squadrons do you think you'll get?

Is it really worth throwing one of your limited numbers of squadrons away in a fit of pique because they didn't perform up to your expectations in a single op?

[bartrat]

Best way to improve morale is stand down the squadron.
No activity reduces fatigue and helps morale.
Another way is assign a better leader (higher leadership and inspire)
I am a newbie, that is the only tricks I know.

[chazz]

I can see the fatigue angle but it was their first op.