How much do you place in magazines?

[djoos5]

While building my last scenario - which has actually turned into a six-month task - I decided to use unlimited ammo so that I could design the three side and not have to worry about magazines. So, after getting a good handle on balance, missions, events, etc - it is now time to start adding magazines.

So, how much do you put in your magazines when it comes to Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground?

I read a post here recently that someone pointed out although the AS-4 Kitchen is deadly, the Soviets didn't make that many of them. This might not be quoted verbatim and I don't know what the poster was using for verification, but it seems logical.

How many AS-4 Kitchens would be available for 50+ Backfire bombers, each carrying two missiles? Enough for one mission? Two missions?

Does it matter when it comes to the AI? Do you worry about testing the ability of the AI to get a job done with limited ammo, or do you load them up and only limit the Player with the tools they have to get the job done?

Since CMANO is not multi-player (unless you're using Baloogan's fine tool), is it worth the time to spend for accuracy on the AI side? I understand the tension for players watching their war shots diminish over the course of the game and needing to make every shot count, but I would love to get another scenario creator's point of view on this part of design. I want to start the last task to finish my scenario, but will wait to see what you have to say.

Thanks in advance!

DJ

[djoos5]

Here is a question for the Devs -

When targeting fuel or ammo bunkers - is there any kind of stacked damage caused to a base or facility due to the explosive energy released based on the stored munitions or fuel? I am not making a request to add, but was just wondering if this is modeled into the game.

[Tomcat84]

It depends. You are listing most of the thinking points and need to decide what your goal is with the scenario.

Do you want the player to have to worry about ammo management, or is he getting enough on his plate as it is?

The realism/historical argument is one you can use, but also keep in mind what the possible alternate reality of your scenario implies. For example, if the Soviets decided (with some time in advance) they were going to strike NATO, they might have ramped up their ammo production and produced more AS-4s than they really did, make sense?

AI wise my point of view is it doesnt matter. I build it so they can do the job I want for them. But then again most of my scenarios arent that long in duration. The longer and more encompassing your scenario is, the more it might be a factor where you can decide that a war of attrition is a viable strategy for the player to use (running them out of ammo and units). But for an average scenario I just give the AI what I think it needs, within reason (I might stack 30 planes on an airfield and give the last ten one of those reduced "light" CAP loadouts to replicate running out.)

Hope this is of some use!

[Feltan]

I concur with Tomcat84's assessment.  It depends. It is a scenario design consideration -- and that design might include ammunition as a constraint on the player or AI.  Or not.
 
In real life, think of the Falklands.  How would it have been different had the Argentinians had access to unlimited amounts of Exocet missiles?  IIRC, they only had a handful in inventory.  If you are designing a scenario around the Falklands, that has to be a priority consideration if you intend to model historical constraints faced by Argentina.
 
On a more general note, I tend to pack magazines with common load out items to allow for CAP and dumb bomb loads.  With no quantitative facts behind it, I am assuming an airfield in a likely combat zone would not run short of 500 lb. bombs.  I also tend to be far more circumspect with guided munitions of any kind -- maybe a couple of sorties per aircraft assigned at most unless there is specific reason or fact to alter.
 
I look at assigned aircraft load out options.  You can't prep for a mission without having certain weapons available.  I think this ends up causing too many AAM's to be available, but you don't have the option to send up CAP with reduced loads or a "guns only" CAP.
 
Regards,
Feltan

[mikmykWS]

In the current versions of the game there is a way to load aircraft without the entire load. When you go into the ready AC dialog look for the OK- Ready (Exclude options weapons) button. Please do let us know how this works out for you.

Mike

[ComDev]

The Soviets usually built three missiles per launch rail/cell [8D]

[Gunner98]

Emsoy

That's good info, for my Northern Fury series I was planning on 5 loadouts (3x AS-6A ASM, 2 x AS-6B ARM) for the bears over 5-6 scenarios, but I suspect Tomcat's assumption is correct and they would ramp up production. That was a total SWAG by the way. Should I assume a similar loadout for AS-5's once the AS-6 bustles were empty.

Djoos

Beyond the big stuff I let the AI have what it needs to do the job. For the player side I like to put some sort of historical/reality context to it. Some examples:
-Keflavik 94, bucket loads of Aim 7M & 9M's: the base has been hosting F-15's for years BUT, very limited Aim-120's as they were just coming into production
-Norway 94, In the north enough for about 48hrs of Ops (bases are vulnerable)and assuming a daily resupply by road or Hurc so a Max 5-6 laadouts of AAW. Air-2-Mud stuff centralized at key bases and bulk AAW stuff in the south. Several bases were designed to intake reinforcement air but I limited the reinforcement squadrons to one base by focusing the specific ammo
-For carriers, which come with a fairly complete magazine already, I generally leave it alone unless there is something specific I want to do: i.e. if the scenario depicts the CV having done a couple days of action I reduce the loadouts by roughly 1/3 per day of action in the ammo that would be used up, If you have an AE or an AOR with the TG you can modify that between scenarios. (same goes for the SAMs on the escorts)
-I generally like to limit the latest version of a weapon (or type) to 1 or 2 loads, but have some of the older type available

You can use the ammo as a balance in the scenario, and a quick one-liner in the scenario notes can give lots of context.

Hope that helps.

B

[djoos5]

Very helpful stuff, guys!

Thanks!

[Rudd]

Here's some numbers from the first 30 days of OIF, which destroyed the...well, most everything that needed to be.
from http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/do ... 13-025.pdf (second reference today)

Maybe you or someone could use the numbers as a starting point