Air AI

[Devast8or]

I have been away for a while and I recently returned back to Command, I must say it has improved greatly, Kudos to the devs. I still however feel that the Air AI is somewhat weak.

I'm running Malvinas 1982 scenario as Argentina.
After some hard thought lessons I adapted by having my CAP close to the main task force.

The AI took the bait and tried attacking my Task Force using Sea Harriers. My plan was to lure in Sea Harriers to chase after my fighters and use Sea Darts to take them down. It worked perfectly resulting in 10 downed Sea Harriers. Eventually I run out of Sea Darts so I had to adapt again. Trying to stick to the same strategy cost me a destroyer.

Now I would hope that Sea Harriers would have maintained distance after few losses but no they kept coming.

After I was out of Sea Darts I looked closely at what I had at my disposal. The Mirages and SkyHawks had not proved too valuable at that point. I noticed that the SkyHawks only had rear aspect heat seeking missiles but I also noticed that they were faster than Sea Harriers. So I tried to micromanage them by using the sandwich method. Allow the Sea Harriers to pass then chase them down by attacking from the six. It worked like a charm, now I'm up on 16 downed Sea Harriers with no losses since I adapted. I feel like I'm cheating when micro managing but I also feel cheated if I leave it to the AI since it attacks the Sea Harriers with my Sky Hawks by intercepting head on. This always results in a loss for me.

- Will Air AI in future builds by able to take into consideration the loadout and then decide best way to attack? Also I’d like to see AI use some other tactics, like coming in low, or very high or in between etc.
- Why does not AI (Sea Harriers) react to my 6-a clock tactics, they never try to do anything, they just pass by my aircraft heading for the task force. When I swarm them they just keep going only trying to evade when it’s too late and never trying to get back at me.
-I also noticed that my Mirages when on RTB when Whinchester break away directly after they fired their single AA missile. Since the missile is semi guided it looses the guidance from the Mirage when it heads back to home, it sohuld stick around until the missile has either hit or been lost.

[mikmykWS]

Hi Dave

Game play feedback like this is really great. Thanks for taking the time to post it. It really does help us out tremendously.

What version of the game are you using?

In the newer versions of the game you can assign prosecution areas to all patrol missions which basically give you the ability to set the max area a contact will be engaged/chased. Like wise you can also set

6 o'clock method: We'll take a look at this. I'd be interested to know what the harriers were doing and the parameters of each.
SARH Engagement: This shouldn't happen with a recent build. Please let us know the version.

Thanks!

Mike

[Devast8or]

Thx for the response Mike. I'm attaching a screenshot of what is happening.
In this case 6 Harriers were inbound, I had manually set up all my Fighters to north of them waiting for them to pass before engaging.
It seems however that 3 of these Harriers were on Escort duty, once they detected my fighters they started to engage so I had to split them up.

Number 1 is showing my Skyhawk tailing a Harrier, there is no attempt from him to manouver and get rid of that position.
Number 2 was chasing one of my Fighters but broke away for some reason, he should be probably helping No 1 Harrier but no, he circles around and picks one of my Fighters in the north that is on Bingo Fuel.
Number 3 shows the strike Harriers, they completely ignore Fighters to the north of them and to the south. Note that these Fighters are not engaged by anyone at this time. The strike group is on a mission to strike against my Harrier. They fly at 40 000 ft all the way to the Target and then start to circle and descend. They are actually able to get some hits on the Carrier but eventually all 6 Harriers are destroyed with no losses to my fighters.

Now I would have liked to see some mutual support between the Harriers on escort mission maybe have No2 go after No1's threat etc. Don't know how difficult that would be to implement.
I would like to see Strike group more intelligent maybe go after Air Threats if they have AA Capability or evade the target zone completely if AA threat is detected(have this as an EMCON switch)
Have the Strike group approach the target at correct altitude.

As for SARHs I'm pretty sure I've seen it in B536 or B538, haven't tested with the latest build.

[hb921]

There are also other problem with air AI. Eg. AI is not taking into account capabilities of the target - F-14 intercepting bomber will fire missiles from max range (with severe range penalty) instead of closing range, or even using Sidewinders. I know it is tricky one... - if bomber is close to launch point it maybe worthwhile to expend Phoenix or two.

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: hb921

There are also other problem with air AI. Eg. AI is not taking into account capabilities of the target - F-14 intercepting bomber will fire missiles from max range (with severe range penalty) instead of closing range, or even using Sidewinders. I know it is tricky one... - if bomber is close to launch point it maybe worthwhile to expend Phoenix or two.

The case logic is very complex. How does it know its a bomber? What if its a TU-128. How hi and how low. A million other variables that can come into play.

So its not like there is some stupid omission on our part. You start very broad and then you start working down to specific cases. Please be patient and let us get there.


Mike

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: davorp

Thx for the response Mike. I'm attaching a screenshot of what is happening.
In this case 6 Harriers were inbound, I had manually set up all my Fighters to north of them waiting for them to pass before engaging.
It seems however that 3 of these Harriers were on Escort duty, once they detected my fighters they started to engage so I had to split them up.

Number 1 is showing my Skyhawk tailing a Harrier, there is no attempt from him to manouver and get rid of that position.
Number 2 was chasing one of my Fighters but broke away for some reason, he should be probably helping No 1 Harrier but no, he circles around and picks one of my Fighters in the north that is on Bingo Fuel.
Number 3 shows the strike Harriers, they completely ignore Fighters to the north of them and to the south. Note that these Fighters are not engaged by anyone at this time. The strike group is on a mission to strike against my Harrier. They fly at 40 000 ft all the way to the Target and then start to circle and descend. They are actually able to get some hits on the Carrier but eventually all 6 Harriers are destroyed with no losses to my fighters.

Now I would have liked to see some mutual support between the Harriers on escort mission maybe have No2 go after No1's threat etc. Don't know how difficult that would be to implement.
I would like to see Strike group more intelligent maybe go after Air Threats if they have AA Capability or evade the target zone completely if AA threat is detected(have this as an EMCON switch)
Have the Strike group approach the target at correct altitude.

As for SARHs I'm pretty sure I've seen it in B536 or B538, haven't tested with the latest build.

Thanks for your time looking at this Dave. We'll take a look.

Mike

[hb921]

In case I have seen there was positive ID of Bear, thanks to Prowler orbiting nearby...

EDIT - and by the way, I am not suggesting it is kind of stupid omission - it is VERY complex logic. I am just providing another example where manual intercept is far more effective than AI. Another such case is intercept of bomber by gun armed fighter - in such case there is positive ID due to short range, but AI knows nothing about head on attack - it is attacking from direction fighter just happened to be.

[mikmykWS]

Please put this in a new string in tech support. We'll never remember or think to look in Dave's string for it.

Thanks!

Mike

[hb921]

OK - gun issue is already on tech support.