Poll Discussion Area

[Mad Russian]

Coming and going...we only have so much time.

Only so many resources.

Where to best utilize those?

WWII - IMO, the scale change to half the size of FPC large scale, should make the game still about as fluid as it is now. Of course, without actually doing that scale it's hard to tell. At some point, we'll have to do the FPC small scale to test it.

Vietnam - there is not a lot out there. Could the game do an infantry style game with extensive airmobile operations? We would need to run a test to see.

Arab Israeli Wars - Not much terrain. How long would a scenario last? How many Arab tanks can an Israeli tank company kill? There are some issues with the Red vs Blue here in the extreme.

Modern - most of the "Brush Wars - Oil Wars" are very lop sided and short. They apply overwhelming firepower against a much weaker opponent. There may be 3 or 4 tank battles from 1990 to present that would be worth looking at. India-Pakistan probably has more worthwhile engagements than any other region.

Cold War - We are already here. But in the late 80's. Each decade brings differences in equipment, tactics, deployment and Command Control. It's actually not any easier to continue adding Cold War time periods than it will be to go to any other time period.

Sci-Fi - No better or worse than any other, EXCEPT, that would then have to create units and weapons on top of gathering the data on what is currently available on actual equipment. That's not an insignificant amount of work.

What this is going to come down to is this:

1) Customer preference.
2) Time and resources from where we are now, you are about to essentially get an entirely new game with 2.04, to where we go next. What will we be able to do the quickest while we continue to work on the rest of the game series. We want to get more content in your hands faster. I will continue to produce and post free content for what we have already created. But that's just for fun. We need to determine where our resources and time can be best utilized to get you more games/content on your machines.
3) Dev Team preference.

The goal is find the main interest for most of you, weigh that with what we think can be done the quickest, do some quick tests and get busy with the next game in the series.

Discussion with you has always been our guide. It's not time to change that format now.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

If WW2 becomes the focus, then there would need to be determination as to where.

That's like saying we are going to pick a new place to live and saying you're going to Germany. Really? Where in Germany?

WW2 has a lot of options. I've studied and made scenarios for the war for a few decades now. As I see it, here are the WWII options:

Early war Europe: Poland and France 1940.
Western Desert: North Africa.
Eastern Front First Half: June 41 through December 42.
Eastern Front Second Half: January 43 through May 45.
Western Front First Half: June 44 through December 44.
Western Front Second Half: January 45 through May 45.
Italy 43 - 45.
Pacific War First Half: 1936 through December 1942.
Pacific War Second Half: January 1943 though August 1945.

I don't believe that the series should support battles. By that I mean that I don't see us doing a Normandy Battle game. But rather to keep to the campaign format. Where we give you the units in a slice of time and let you have all that we can possibly cram into that slice of time. That may change, and that is my own opinion, but that's how I see it for the time being.



Good Hunting.

MR

[SwampYankee68]

Vietnam - there is not a lot out there. Could the game do an infantry style game with extensive airmobile operations? We would need to run a test to see.

This! [&o]

[governato]

Follow an elite mechanized unit through a WWII campaign: Grossdeutschland.

They have been *everywhere*: France, Moscow, Southern Russia, Romania, Prussia. You 'd be able to cover engagements in a variety of scales (it was a regiment at start), terrains and equipment.
You could probably do that in different installments, maybe covering 2 years with each one?

[Alex1812]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Arab Israeli Wars - Not much terrain. How long would a scenario last? How many Arab tanks can an Israeli tank company kill? There are some issues with the Red vs Blue here in the extreme.

Arab-Israeli Wars are the most interesting period in many cases. First of all there are so small number of wargames about this period. I know only one game and it's not interesting for me. The second, Arab-Israeli Wars is the period of large and dynamic battles. It will be very interesting to try it. And the final, the terrain is not so simple. Arab-Israeli wars took place not only in the Sinai desert, but also on the Golan Heights with difficult terrain. The current combat system looks good for this period.

About another variant I can say that new WW2 tactical game absolutely not interesting for me, the new Cold War also looks not so good. We already have Cold War game.

So, I'll buy the new Arab Israeli Wars game, do not buy the WW2 game, and maybe buy the new Cold War game.

[WildCatNL]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
Where to best utilize those?

Arab Israeli Wars - Not much terrain. How long would a scenario last? How many Arab tanks can an Israeli tank company kill? There are some issues with the Red vs Blue here in the extreme.

Modern - most of the "Brush Wars - Oil Wars" are very lop sided and short. They apply overwhelming firepower against a much weaker opponent. There may be 3 or 4 tank battles from 1990 to present that would be worth looking at. India-Pakistan probably has more worthwhile engagements than any other region.

How about fictitious BLUFOR against OPFOR battles, from 1980 to today, for example on NTC Ft. Irwin, Hohenfels Germany or BATUS Suffield, Canada terrain?
The setting would enable both clashes between NATO and PACT equipment and clashes between NATO equipment. Great replay value through variations in time frame (late 80's US Army vs early '80s) and equipment (Stryker brigades, Cobra / Commanche / Apache).

You've already shown to be great at a fictitious setting. Although the NTC is also backed up with some "literature" such as:
- Dan Bolger's "Dragons at War: Land Battle in the Desert" (1986, about rotation 1-83)*, and
- US Army's "66 Stories of Battle Command"*
- US Army's "Training for Decisive Action - Stories of Mission Command"

Although this lacks the "famous" ring of the Six Day wars or Desert Storm, it enables you to come with the kind of scenarios and campaigns in which the game engine excels.

William

[Tazak]

WW2 has been and is being done to death

Vietnam - very limited in terms of technology and variety of 'players' (outside of the US there were I think a few brit/Anzac troops but 95%+ was US vs VC unless we're looking at the French in the 50's) not to mention I could only stomach so many heliborne scenarios

Sci-Fi - this would be very open in what the player community could do (WH40k anyone [;)] ), while I think this era can really make the game engine shine out above anything else that's around at present.

Modern/cold-war/bush wars/oil-wars/etc...seeing how we're war gaming 'fantasy' anyway I'd like to see the 6 day war occur 20 years later with slightly updated Israel TOE and some of their homegrown systems vs US M1 (Egypt) and soviet T72 (Syria), or a south African conflict in the hot wildness with homegrwon light armour vs older MBTs from various nations, a modern sino-chinese conflict that escalates (hell even a 3 way with the US/NATO drawn into the fighting)

[76mm]

Why have fictitious OPFOR campaigns when we have the fictitious war the OPFOR campaigns were intended to represent? If you want to play at Hohenfels, can't you just create a map with the scenario editor and have at it?

No interest in Vietnam.

Even less interest in SciFi or orcs/trolls whatever. I don't share the fascination with 40KWH, and in any event Matrix is already coming out with a licensed Warhammer game soon, so I can't see this engine going there...

[kipanderson]

Hi,

“Eastern Front Second Half: January 43 through May 45.”

That’s the one of me.... WWII is the main deal; Eastern Front is the main deal within WWII.

All the best,
Kip.

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: Tazak

WW2 has been and is being done to death

There are several choices where WWII is concerned. That doesn't mean that FPC couldn't go there with good results.

Vietnam - very limited in terms of technology and variety of 'players' (outside of the US there were I think a few brit/Anzac troops but 95%+ was US vs VC unless we're looking at the French in the 50's) not to mention I could only stomach so many heliborne scenarios

I guess you're right. Vietnam doesn't offer too much diversity. There were mountains, hills, jungle, farmland, rice paddies, plantations, tunnel complexes and city fights. There were US, Australian, South Korean, Thai, Viet Cong Local Forces, Viet Cong Main Forces and North Vietnamese Army ground combat units. There are 10 years worth of fighting involved using infantry operations, assaulting defended positions, search and destroy, airmobile, mechanized, tanks and riverine operations.

Yeah, you're right there's probably nothing to look at there. It would all be just one helicopter assault into a rice paddy after another. I wouldn't think that, you trying to survive a campaign that related to a years tour in Vietnam, to see if you even come home, would be all that interesting either. Or that it would be a really good platform to include random missions.

I don't think from your comments, and that most people's idea of the war, is anything like the actual fighting that took place there.

I took five years researching a Vietnam War scenario for TOAW. I believe we can do Vietnam justice if we go there and you won't be disappointed with the battles/campaigns we offer you.

Sci-Fi - this would be very open in what the player community could do (WH40k anyone [;)] ), while I think this era can really make the game engine shine out above anything else that's around at present.

Could easily be done.

Modern/cold-war/bush wars/oil-wars/etc...seeing how we're war gaming 'fantasy' anyway I'd like to see the 6 day war occur 20 years later with slightly updated Israel TOE and some of their homegrown systems vs US M1 (Egypt) and soviet T72 (Syria), or a south African conflict in the hot wildness with homegrwon light armour vs older MBTs from various nations, a modern sino-chinese conflict that escalates (hell even a 3 way with the US/NATO drawn into the fighting)

The game system has intentionally been left open to modding so that you guys don't have to wait on us to do all of this. Once we get the FPC small scale done you can pick and choose where you go and what you do with the engine.

Good Hunting.

MR

[DoubleDeuce]

Honestly, the openness in which this game has been designed, if the Dev's could extend up the date ranges (past and future) and allow for for adding completing new OOB's (as opposed to just editing the USER ones) there is really very little limit to what this game can cover. We just need new OOB and appropriate maps.

[harry_vdk]

ORIGINAL: governato


Follow an elite mechanized unit through a WWII campaign: Grossdeutschland.

They have been *everywhere*: France, Moscow, Southern Russia, Romania, Prussia. You 'd be able to cover engagements in a variety of scales (it was a regiment at start), terrains and equipment.
You could probably do that in different installments, maybe covering 2 years with each one?

I like the idea of follow a unit. Not only a German but also a US, British and a Soviet. This follow can extend outside WWII. And tell the story from a unit perspective and not a battle.

This change my "maybe" of the WWII poll to a yes.

Harry

[z1812]

The game engine is quite unique. Given that many areas have been covered before, they have not been addressed by a game engine or approach like this game provides. Anything done will appear fresh.

Considering that I bought the first Flashpoint Germany, and now the second, I am disappointed that the next product will be another full game of NATO/Warsaw Pact. I would have preferred an add on to FPRS with most resources going to a fresh period and era.

For most Wargamers, World War 2, East Front is the Holy Grail. I suspect that direction would bring success and profit.

[TheWombat_matrixforum]

If you're going to try SE Asia, start it in the 1950s with the French (Street Without Joy, Hell in a Very Small Place), and carry it through the various stages of US involvement. The French battles would be different from the early US stuff (Ia Drang, Hamburger Hill, etc.) and from the later stuff (TeT), as well as the Easter Offensive in '72 and the last gasp of the ARVN in '75. Not my cup of tea really but I'd play it IF the game engine could handle the extensive use of leg infantry and helicopters, as well as some really wild terrain.

WWII, eh, sure, but it's not my priority.

Arab-Israeli stuff would work, again though you'd want to span the time from 1948 through 1982 at the least. The fighting around Jerusalem in 1948 is a lot different, say, from the romps across Sinai in 1956 and 1957, and those are a far cry from either the fighting around the Canal or on the Heights in 1973. Lebanon in 1982 has some reasonable battles at this scale, with some decent terrain as well. But yeah, you do start to get a real issue of game balance. In 1973 at least the early Sinai fighting would work nicely, and on the Heights it might be interesting to have to hold on for dear life, but balance is an issue.

Korea, then and now would be excellent. I'd buy in a heartbeat. Lots of terrain, lots of variety if you include the different eras.

I still like hypothetical contemporary--Iran, Ukraine, Russia, China, Syria, India, Pakistan all might be settings.

Sci-Fi to me is "ok," but it's really easy to end up with cheese rather than serious stuff, especially if you have to develop it all yourself (which is harder than it looks). But a licensing deal for Hammer's Slammers, booya!

[jack54]

ORIGINAL: governato


Follow an elite mechanized unit through a WWII campaign: Grossdeutschland.

They have been *everywhere*: France, Moscow, Southern Russia, Romania, Prussia. You 'd be able to cover engagements in a variety of scales (it was a regiment at start), terrains and equipment.
You could probably do that in different installments, maybe covering 2 years with each one?

Great idea, this never crossed my mind; (I was too busy thinking of away to tie campaigns together for a big picture but zooming in would really add to the game immersion.)

MR's description of Vietnam really has me thinking.... that could really work. WOW.

[Jafele]

WWII Eastern front is very popular and MR has a lot of experience with russian scenarios.

Think it´s an intelligent choice. [:)]

[WABAC]

Maybe the emphasis should be on the new features you devs want to explore.

You might want amphibious movement and naval gunfire because you're itching to do WWII Pacific scenarios. But presumably the game is not so limited that I can't use those new features to develop amphibious Cold War Scandinavian scenarios.

I would definitely like to see something more interesting done with engineers. But I have no idea which setting would be the best to introduce the new features.

[DoubleDeuce]

ORIGINAL: WABAC

I would definitely like to see something more interesting done with engineers.

My thoughts as well. Such as those units be able to offer assistance with digging in (fortifying hexes), having quicker minefield clearance and a more direct/necessary role in bridging.

[SwampYankee68]

I agree with MR's comments on Vietnam. I think there is more than enough diversity to justify a stand-alone game.

Here's another idea - Central America in the 1980's - Anyone ever play Victory Games' excellent "Central America - The United States' Backyard War"? There are a ton of scenarios in that, I remember playing one that had been translated to a scenario on Shrapnel's Steel Panthers Main Battle Tank. It was an Airborne Battalion being dropped into a suspected Nuclear Ballistic Missile site in Honduras... You could definitely come up with a full games worth of scenarios in Central America in the 80s and 90s.

In short, the WWII gaming landscape is pretty dang full. There are so many other options that this engine would do GREAT with!

[Werewolf13]

WWII - 2nd Half. Should be lots of opportunity in places like Borneo, New Guinea, Okinawa, and depending on scale maybe Saipan, Iwo Jima etc. The Pacific was primarily fought by the infantry.

Too much emphasis placed on Armor these days. Tanks may win battles but the Infantry wins wars.