Disorganised Ships Overrun

[warspite1]

A ship with a 1 range is in Copenhagen when overrun.

I have already got 4 ships in Frederikshaven but allow it to enter the port overstacked.

The Germans, still within the same movement phase, then overrun Frederikshaven. Is it right that that ship can throw for its fate and, if a 5+ is thrown, escape to the UK?

[paulderynck]

Yes

[Centuur]

Here is RAW:

Stacking applies at the end of every step and after each retreat and
advance after combat (see 11.16.5).

[warspite1]

So there is no difference in an organised or disorganised ship when it comes to being overrun (if indeed the ship is even disorganised after the first overrun)?

Edit: Found it - no there is no difference.

[AxelNL]

it's not fair, is it? Just get on the allied side when this happens - then you are glad....

[paulderynck]

Should have "done" Frederikshaven first. Chalk it up to a learning experience.

[brian brian]

Organized naval units can rebase when their port hex is overrun without rolling to see if they are destroyed or captured. Dis-organized (or organized naval units on a surprise impulse) must make that roll first.

They are destroyed if they can't reach a base within _double_ their range factor.

[Finarfïn]

Hello,

is there an exception for land movement or a bug (impossible to do overstacking during a land move)?

Fin

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Finarfïn

Hello,

is there an exception for land movement or a bug (impossible to do overstacking during a land move)?

Fin

That's a bug which still exists. Now, we could simply allow overstacking to happen during the land movement phase. But imagine the cry out when a player has to destroy any overstacked units when he ended this phase.
However, in most cases you can find a way around this to first move a unit out of the hex, than make the necessary other moves and later undo the move of the first unit.

[Extraneous]

Just out of curiosity.
 
If you place it in Copenhagen and it is overran how does MWiF handle the CA Peder Skram (move 3, range 1)?
 
There was a bug in CWiF (that I reported) and just wondered if it was addressed in MWiF.
 
 

[Centuur]

If Frederikshavn (or the other Danish port) is Allied controlled, the vessel goes there. If that port is already captured, than if the Peder Skram escapes, the player controlling the Danish forces has to destroy the vessel...

[paulderynck]

Most likely has to press F11 with that unit in hand during the overrun digression.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


Just out of curiosity.

If you place it in Copenhagen and it is overran how does MWiF handle the CA Peder Skram (move 3, range 1)?

There was a bug in CWiF (that I reported) and just wondered if it was addressed in MWiF.

warspite1

Funny you should ask that - see post 90 and 91 of AARse V. This scenario is covered there.

[Joseignacio]

Hello:

As a general rule, the ships already disorganized need to roll for their capture/sinking/escape, the organized no.

There are exceptions: When you conquer a country all in port in the area (not in territories, or minors, away) or when you declare Vichy , all roll.

The ship in Copenhagen could have gone (maybe, I would need to check) to England, cause when you are overrun you can move double if I recall well.

Anyway there is no need to put ships in Copenhagen, you can distribute half in Frederikshaven, half abroad in Iceland, and they have better prospects.

[paulderynck]

Not when you declare Vichy.

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
The ship in Copenhagen could have gone (maybe, I would need to check) to England, cause when you are overrun you can move double if I recall well.

Copenhagen is adjacent only to the Baltic, not the North Sea, so it takes range three to get from Copenhagen to Britain.

However, in this case range is irrelevant. Since Copenhagen has just been captured, it is clearly held by the Axis. It is not legal for a naval unit to move from the Baltic to the North Sea if Copenhagen is held by the other side, so no naval unit being overrun in Copenhagen can sail to Britain.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Not when you declare Vichy.

Oooops, I meant when you collapse Vichy, I stand corrected. This was a lapsus linguae.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
The ship in Copenhagen could have gone (maybe, I would need to check) to England, cause when you are overrun you can move double if I recall well.

Copenhagen is adjacent only to the Baltic, not the North Sea, so it takes range three to get from Copenhagen to Britain.

However, in this case range is irrelevant. Since Copenhagen has just been captured, it is clearly held by the Axis. It is not legal for a naval unit to move from the Baltic to the North Sea if Copenhagen is held by the other side, so no naval unit being overrun in Copenhagen can sail to Britain.

That's why I said [:)] :

The ship in Copenhagen could have gone (maybe, I would need to check) to England, cause when you are overrun you can move double if I recall well.

I wasn't sure wether the range was 1 and would double to 2 or 2 and double to 4. But anyway he could leave instead that cruiser in Fredrickshaven and leave 2 convoys in Copenhagen instead, convoys have 3 seas range doubled to 6.

The Copenhagen matter is a different thing. In this you're right. I thought it was only after Denmark had fallen that that happened, but no, RAW says

if major powers you are at war with control at least 2 of Oslo, Copenhagen and Kiel.

and you're right, cause you don' need to make Denmark surrender for this.

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
The ship in Copenhagen could have gone (maybe, I would need to check) to England, cause when you are overrun you can move double if I recall well.

Copenhagen is adjacent only to the Baltic, not the North Sea, so it takes range three to get from Copenhagen to Britain.

However, in this case range is irrelevant. Since Copenhagen has just been captured, it is clearly held by the Axis. It is not legal for a naval unit to move from the Baltic to the North Sea if Copenhagen is held by the other side, so no naval unit being overrun in Copenhagen can sail to Britain.

And a quick test shows that MWiF does this correctly; overrun naval units in Copenhagen are not allowed to go to Britain, no matter what range they have.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
The ship in Copenhagen could have gone (maybe, I would need to check) to England, cause when you are overrun you can move double if I recall well.

Copenhagen is adjacent only to the Baltic, not the North Sea, so it takes range three to get from Copenhagen to Britain.

However, in this case range is irrelevant. Since Copenhagen has just been captured, it is clearly held by the Axis. It is not legal for a naval unit to move from the Baltic to the North Sea if Copenhagen is held by the other side, so no naval unit being overrun in Copenhagen can sail to Britain.

And a quick test shows that MWiF does this correctly; overrun naval units in Copenhagen are not allowed to go to Britain, no matter what range they have.

The rule is not that simple.

If you hold Kiel and control its canal hexes, then you can move from the Baltic to the North Sea. And there are some other conditions too.