3 'deeper' questions...

[stutzkalter]

hi,

i have some questions to values in the game:

1. where is the turretspeed marked for a vehicle (encyclopaedia?) and what is the exactly influence on the game?

2. what does the 'targeting' number mean and what is the exactly influence on direct, indirect and opfire?

3. is the tankfacing (in degree) on the map and the fireangel of the opponentunit considered in the mathematic caculation of shellrecocheting?

thx
harry

[Belisarius]

I'll pass on 1. for now, although i suspect turret turn speed can affect ROF or something such, but here's some info on the rest,

2. "Targeting" says something about how well stabilized the main gun is, i.e. how much you can move the tank without suffering an accuracy penalty. I think a "5" rating is comparable to a modern system. A "3" is good in SP:WAW.

3. Yes it does! For AFVs this is extremely important, as it can be decisive wether you can nail a tank or not!

Take a look at this extract from a combat log (Hi Jess )

Tiger IE firing at M4A3E8 HVSS at a range of 15 hexes, ~using 88mm KwK36 L56~Hit Chance 21 percent
AP shell hit
pen = 293, base = 146
PRM = 0.94, HorAspect = 70.00, VerAspect = -3.57, BPF = 1.13
Temp1 = 0.34, Temp2 = 1.00, Temp3 = 1.22, Temp4 = 0.37
GeoArm = 61.51, BalArm = 61.79
~M4A3E8 HVSS is hit, TOP hit by 88mm KwK36 L56, using AP ammo, ~Pen 138, Armor 61, M4A3E8 HVSS DESTROYED

Hit angles are important!
Infantry are not as vulnerable to flanking shots, as soldiers don't stand in a perfect formation anymore...

[stutzkalter]

@Belisarius: i hope you, understand me right, but i do not mean the coarse adjustment of the "tankface" (like: font, side and rear...instead of this, i mean the fine adjustment of degrees to the opponent fire...understand me?!

regards
harry

[Belisarius]

If I'm not completely mistaken, it's also right in there Not only what facing you hit (rear, side, front, turret etc.) but also at what angle you hit. You can get a ricochet if the hit is at a very narrow angle, and even a shell shattering depending on shell and armor quality respectively.

[rbrunsman]

I always pay attention to the minute facings you can acheive within the hex. I always try to have the best angle possible presented to the suspected direction of fire. I try not to give my opponent direct perpendicular shots, even to the front of my heavily armored vehicles. Looking at the combat log below you see that the precise angle is calculated for the shot.

On the other hand, when you are the shooter, it is better to get a direct perpendicular shot on your target if the penetration is going to be close. It is not enough to just get a "side shot" if the angle is too great.

[John Galt]

Stutzkalter, As for your first question: Far from being an expert here, I look at it like this: Each turn represents a certain amount of time. I think about 6 minutes IIRC. It follows that quality of the crew (how fast a good crew can actually reload the gun), level of suppression of the crew, TURRET SPEED, would be factors in how many shots each unit gets per turn. I don't know this for a fact but it seems logical when you think of it like that.....

[Irinami]

Not having anything helpful really to say, all I know is that turning speeds for vehicles are absolutely not modelled. I would assume the same for turret turning speeds as well. This and reversing are the limitations of the game engine we just have to live with. ... Unless MatrixGames wants to make the game open-source, but then crediting issues (though for example DIKU, MERC, and ROM servers have reasonably conquered that problem) and name issues (does Matrix REALLY want it's name on all the buggy or viral versions that people make from the open source?) are.. er, well, issues.

[vahauser]

In SPWAW, turretless tanks almost always have a lower rate of fire compared to turreted tanks. this simulates the advantages of a turret. In addition, the number of men in the turret is also accounted for by SPWAW when computing rates of fire.

So the answer to the original Question #1 is yes.

The "instant spinning in place" of AFVs within a hex during play is a factor of both the software and the basic problems of trying to mesh a turn-based game with a real-time continuum. I don't let it bother me anymore and just chalk it up as one of the quirks of the game.

[Tomanbeg]

IIRC the turret speed is factored into the targeting value. Along with # of men in the turret(3 is normal and there is a penality for two, but no bonus for 4), and Stabilization. There used to be a thread explaining all this, but I think it got lost during the great crash of '02. It is from the early summer of '00 where Vebber expands some on the mechanics of the hit-kill routines. BTW, the 5 to 6 minutes per turn is for SPIII, SP and it's tactical children use a 2 to 3 minute turn. Although WaW got away from using that as a base for calculating MP's when they went to the larger maps. Back when the biggest map was 100x80, there was a direct relationaship between the 'official' speed of a vehicle and how many hexes it could move in 2 minutes. The MP allowances were pushed up to let the Armored units get around the larger maps in a reasonable amount of time. IIRC Tigers had 12 mp's while M4's had 14 or 15. The Panther was a hot rod at 19 mp's. the speed king was a Hellcat at 28. So it was done for game play purposes, since at 12 mp's it would take 10-15 turns or more to move from the north edge to the south edge of a 100x240 map.
T.