Russian Attack on Finland

[Furbet]

Ok some help with the rules understanding,

If the Russian claim for Finnish Borderlands is denied and therefore Russia attacks Finland (before being at war with Germany).

Russia can land attack attack any hex containing Finnish units (fair enough) and any hex containing Finnish and German units (also fair enough)
but can't land attack a hex containing only German units in Finland.

My question is, what (if anything) stops the Axis player shipping a single German unit to Helsinki, moving out any Finnish units and avoiding any chance of Russia conquering Finland ?

[Joseignacio]

No. It can attack GE too, since they are in FI hexes.

A unit may not enter or attack a hex (or units therein) controlled by a major power on the other side that it isn't at war with. However it can attack a hex controlled by an enemy major power or minor country even if the hex contains units it is not at war with.

In attacking such a hex, you must fight all units there, but both sides ignore the fact that you may not be at war with all of them. This means that each side could fly air missions to the hex and use shore bombardment etc. as if they were all at war.

You can only support an attack against units you control if the supporting units are the same nationality as the unit (or hex during strategic bombardment) being attacked or at war with at least one major power or minor country attacking those units (or hexes).

[Furbet]

In that case it's a bug, the Russian 33rd Infantry is unable to attack the German 45th Inf to the West of it, save game in next post.

[Furbet]

Save game if required.

[Extraneous]

9.9 Multiple states of war
Because you can be at war with some major powers but not others, you will encounter cases where you are opposed by some units at war with you and by others that aren’t. This rule deals with those cases.

A unit may not enter or attack a hex (or units therein) controlled by a major power on the other side that it isn’t at war with. However it can attack a hex controlled by an enemy major power or minor country even if the hex contains units it is not at war with.

In attacking such a hex, you must fi ght all units there, but both sides ignore the fact that you may not be at war with all of them. This means that each side could fl y air missions to the hex and use shore bombardment etc. as if they were all at war.

You can only support an attack against units you control if the supporting units are the same nationality as the unit (or hex during strategic bombardment) being attacked or at war with at least one major power or minor country attacking those units (or hexes).

Example 1: There are 2 Commonwealth land units and a face-down LND in Nice. Italy declares war on France and wants to attack Nice. Italian aircraft ground strike the hex. They can be intercepted by Commonwealth (but not French ~ see 18 Co-operation) fighters. Both the Commonwealth and Italy can fly aircraft in ground support to the hex. If the Italians win the combat and advance into the hex, the face-down Commonwealth LND will be destroyed. Commonwealth units will not be able to counter attack to recapture the hex (unless they declare war on
Italy) because they can’t attack a hex controlled by a major power they aren’t at war with.

Example 2: Germany and Italy are at war with the CW and Germany is at war with the US. German and Italian bombers fly a strategic bombardment mission against London. US FTRs can fi ght the German bombers because they are at war with Germany. They can’t fight the Italian bombers because they are not at war with Italy, so the Italian bombers automatically clear through to the target. If a Commonwealth FTR had also intercepted, you would fight the whole thing as one combat because the Commonwealth is at war with both Germany and Italy. If the Commonwealth FTR were shot down, the Italian bombers would then be cleared through.

Example 3: The USSR is launching a land attack against German controlled Finnish units in Helsinki, before Germany and the USSR are at war. The Germans could fly Finnish aircraft in support, but could not fly German aircraft nor provide German shore bombardment unless a German land unit was also in Helsinki.

Example 1 is why placing a German unit in Helsinki, Finland and moving out any Finnish units will not stop the USSR from attacing Helsinki.

[Joseignacio]

Let's see what others think, may be a reason we cannot see, for example supply (which is not the case) or similar.

Now I cannot run the savegame since i am at work, maybe somebody else or I will try later at home if I remember... [;)]

[Furbet]

Thanks Joseignacio and Extraneous, looks like I'm confused by what the game allows and what the rules say, both your explainations and quotes look quite clear that is should be allowed but MWIF says not [:(]

[Joseignacio]

For example, it would look the climate is fine weather, but if it is not, I wonder if that could affect the odds, I think if the odds are too low you cannot attack, you are attacking with a 5 factor unit to a 6 factor, which rounds (down) to 0,5:1, if the weather was very bad, not sure if that could stop you from attacking... Could you make another try with more power, like the other unit of the stack?

Cant find it in the rules but IIRC there was some rule that you could not attack with too low odds.

[Joseignacio]

Well, as usual I am posting WIF rules, not MWIF, but they are 98% similar and I don't think the computer game version changed this. [:)]

[Furbet]

It's not the odds, I get the same results on any attack on German 'only' units, but here is the same with additional units and the weather is good.

[Joseignacio]

Looks like a bug to me, but I'd recommend to wait for some more experienced player posts or even betatesters before posting in the Tchnical Help forum...

(I saw now that in your first picture it was fine weather, yes. plus they are in supply, you are within attack number limit (2) ...)

[Furbet]

Will do many thanks for your input

[warspite1]

Subeto this is a known bug I am afraid with peacekeepers.... [:(]

If you play with someone via e-mail you both just have to be sensible about this - otherwise there is nothing you can do to take Helsinki.

[Furbet]

Thanks for confirming warspite1, I'm sure we can work around it until it's fixed.

(We are playing solitaire via teamviewer and teamspeak

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Subeto

Thanks for confirming warspite1, I'm sure we can work around it until it's fixed.

(We are playing solitaire via teamviewer and teamspeak

warspite1

This one has been around far too long I'm afraid considering that it affects Finland and Romania (+ others from time to time)...

[paulderynck]

This works OK now in the playtest beta so the next public beta should fix the issue for you. Sorry I don't know when it is due. Soon, hopefully.