okay, so I updated to v1.62 and have been playing the CPs. In every game since then (over half a dozen) the countdown to Bulgaria entering the war begins and then at the 20+ week marker the number turns red and stops counting down. I never had this problem in previous versions. I've tried playing different ways thinking I was somehow screwing up their entry, but nothing works. Playing the CPs without Bulgaria is a PITA....
As an aside, I have mixed feelings about the new version. The game has gone from VERY difficult for the CP to VERY easy. Anyone else feeling this way?
What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Moderators: Lord Zimoa, MOD_Commander_The_Great_War
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
ORIGINAL: AEWHistory
okay, so I updated to v1.62 and have been playing the CPs. In every game since then (over half a dozen) the countdown to Bulgaria entering the war begins and then at the 20+ week marker the number turns red and stops counting down. I never had this problem in previous versions. I've tried playing different ways thinking I was somehow screwing up their entry, but nothing works. Playing the CPs without Bulgaria is a PITA....
As an aside, I have mixed feelings about the new version. The game has gone from VERY difficult for the CP to VERY easy. Anyone else feeling this way?
Hi Neighbor!
In the past if CP uses "poison gas" (event) first: that usually causes Italy to enter sooner and holds back (or stops) "Bulgaria" on the March to War.
Bob
and one flew over the Cuckoos nest
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
i read game_diplomacy.lua and if i read it well then if the EA is too strong, bulgaria will not join to CP. this looks ok, who wants to be with the losers? there, there.
solution a: faction alignment of bulgaria is to be set closer to zero in 1914.lua. in this case the country joins sooner, if the conditions do not make this intention freeze again...
solution b: rescript game_diplomacy.lua. wow, it is complicated, even i would not do it... but good task for the developers.
CP used first poison gas speeds up italy, portugal and romania, indeed. but for me bulgaria had frozen already before this event happened.
solution a: faction alignment of bulgaria is to be set closer to zero in 1914.lua. in this case the country joins sooner, if the conditions do not make this intention freeze again...
solution b: rescript game_diplomacy.lua. wow, it is complicated, even i would not do it... but good task for the developers.
CP used first poison gas speeds up italy, portugal and romania, indeed. but for me bulgaria had frozen already before this event happened.
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
What you are talking about was a major bone of contention with players in an earlier thread (year or more ago) and it was felt that what you are reading in the lua files was the source of the problem. This is a shout out to: "JOHNNY BRAVO" to fix the issue, for it does have a tendency to louse up the game, if you really need Bulgaria to enter. Also, it tends to louse up the Salonika donation too for the Brits IIRC.ORIGINAL: euroaron
i read game_diplomacy.lua and if i read it well then if the EA is too strong, bulgaria will not join to CP. this looks ok, who wants to be with the losers? there, there.
solution a: faction alignment of bulgaria is to be set closer to zero in 1914.lua. in this case the country joins sooner, if the conditions do not make this intention freeze again...
solution b: rescript game_diplomacy.lua. wow, it is complicated, even i would not do it... but good task for the developers.
CP used first poison gas speeds up italy, portugal and romania, indeed. but for me bulgaria had frozen already before this event happened.
and one flew over the Cuckoos nest
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
i think i have found it.
there is an alliance total power check based on the alliance strength (of the armies i presume) plus the economies plus 50 (fix value).
this check is ignored in 1914 and (or???) in the first 20 turn (i think this is for other starts than 1914).
and check this out: my bulgaria was keen to join CP in the 14th round (still 1914), but in the 15th (1915) she said no. surprise, surprise.
i do not understand the language of the game, i am just a hobby scripter in javascript... but most computer languages are similar to each other. there are interesting things in this section, like transfer resources regarding PP and ammo...
there is an alliance total power check based on the alliance strength (of the armies i presume) plus the economies plus 50 (fix value).
this check is ignored in 1914 and (or???) in the first 20 turn (i think this is for other starts than 1914).
and check this out: my bulgaria was keen to join CP in the 14th round (still 1914), but in the 15th (1915) she said no. surprise, surprise.
i do not understand the language of the game, i am just a hobby scripter in javascript... but most computer languages are similar to each other. there are interesting things in this section, like transfer resources regarding PP and ammo...
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Kirk did hint that he might introduce nation to nation transfers
and one flew over the Cuckoos nest
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AEWHistory
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Transfer of resources is something sorely lacking in this game. IMHO, there should be a way to help your allies, albeit modestly. It would be interesting if this help had to either move along rail or be converted into a transport ship and sailed to the appropriate harbor. This would risk said help getting destroyed, which is quite realistic.
Btw, this may be what you're already talking about as well, but I do wish the game had a more robust diplomatic component. For example, I'd love for the CP and Entente to be able to try to gain favor with neutrals and maybe even sway one or another onto their side. In fact, I'm not even sure what moves the national sympathies of the different countries save for using a gas attack.
Btw, this may be what you're already talking about as well, but I do wish the game had a more robust diplomatic component. For example, I'd love for the CP and Entente to be able to try to gain favor with neutrals and maybe even sway one or another onto their side. In fact, I'm not even sure what moves the national sympathies of the different countries save for using a gas attack.
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AEWHistory
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Hey Bob,
I think you might have hit on my problem but I'm going to play it out to be sure. I do tend to be a little "gassy" when I play and Bulgaria probably caught wind when the news broke of my gas attack..... That would explain the Bulgarians moving away from me.... [:D]
But seriously, I tend to just upgrade my artillery without thinking and this has lead to me using gas first, so my guess is you've hit on my problem. What happens if the allies use gas first?
BTW, really enjoying our game!
Thanks so much,
Aaron
I think you might have hit on my problem but I'm going to play it out to be sure. I do tend to be a little "gassy" when I play and Bulgaria probably caught wind when the news broke of my gas attack..... That would explain the Bulgarians moving away from me.... [:D]
But seriously, I tend to just upgrade my artillery without thinking and this has lead to me using gas first, so my guess is you've hit on my problem. What happens if the allies use gas first?
BTW, really enjoying our game!
Thanks so much,
Aaron
ORIGINAL: operating
ORIGINAL: AEWHistory
okay, so I updated to v1.62 and have been playing the CPs. In every game since then (over half a dozen) the countdown to Bulgaria entering the war begins and then at the 20+ week marker the number turns red and stops counting down. I never had this problem in previous versions. I've tried playing different ways thinking I was somehow screwing up their entry, but nothing works. Playing the CPs without Bulgaria is a PITA....
As an aside, I have mixed feelings about the new version. The game has gone from VERY difficult for the CP to VERY easy. Anyone else feeling this way?
Hi Neighbor!
In the past if CP uses "poison gas" (event) first: that usually causes Italy to enter sooner and holds back (or stops) "Bulgaria" on the March to War.
Bob
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Jagdtiger14
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
The board game Fatal Alliances (ADG...basically World in Flames WWI) has an awesome diplomacy feature. It should be looked at as an outline for this game's diplomacy. I highly recommend those interested in a diplomacy feature look into it.
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
plenty of good ideas in this forum.
resources transfer is so obvious, albeit in this case the roles of the overseas countries should be revised seriously, i mean why would for example portugal waste her manpower if she is able to support her allies with a decent resource support? sure, some units, but not risking efficiency. thorough thinking over wishful one, please.
diplomacy is also easy to put in the game, like in every turn parties can spend some PPs per countries to push/pull/move their preferences in the desired direction. as PP is the only significant resource in the game, what else is imaginable? yet i consider any spent PPs wasted in advance. why? questions arise, the most important ones: turkey and italy? turkey signed a secret alliance with germany in august 1914, the direction was set. italy also received a counter-offer from the allies against the ahm wish of neutrality, what better option the CP could have offered to her? and there is romania, the greatest loser and winner in the same time. and the other countries, they did not join with good reasons. PP is not an option here to gain any country, in diplomacy happened what happened, i say.
resources transfer is so obvious, albeit in this case the roles of the overseas countries should be revised seriously, i mean why would for example portugal waste her manpower if she is able to support her allies with a decent resource support? sure, some units, but not risking efficiency. thorough thinking over wishful one, please.
diplomacy is also easy to put in the game, like in every turn parties can spend some PPs per countries to push/pull/move their preferences in the desired direction. as PP is the only significant resource in the game, what else is imaginable? yet i consider any spent PPs wasted in advance. why? questions arise, the most important ones: turkey and italy? turkey signed a secret alliance with germany in august 1914, the direction was set. italy also received a counter-offer from the allies against the ahm wish of neutrality, what better option the CP could have offered to her? and there is romania, the greatest loser and winner in the same time. and the other countries, they did not join with good reasons. PP is not an option here to gain any country, in diplomacy happened what happened, i say.
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
When I first got this game I'd be checking all the neutral countries every turn looking for the ones that might look to be entering (never happened) with few exceptions. always felt there was something missing in diplomacy, but could not figure what it was or how to implement a course of action to make diplomacy more viable. I'd be surprised if the dev's put more effort into the diplomacy side of the game, however wished they would.
and one flew over the Cuckoos nest
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AEWHistory
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
It would have taken substantial efforts to change the flow of history, I agree. However, I'm not sure it was impossible. For example, India enthusiastically supported the UK because they hoped for home rule. In theory, the Turks could have promised this to the Arabs in return for support and/or remaining neutral. The same aorta of things could be said for the countries I think. Italy was offered parts of AH by the allies (the Dalmatian coast) as well as Trieste and Tyrol. They were only offered Tunisia by the Central powers. If I were the CPs I'd have offered Italy the moon--or, in this case, all of North Africa and maybe more. Italian entry into the war on the side of the central powers would likely have won them the war.
Anyway, I only point this out to suggest these were theoretical possibilities. I wholeheartedly agree that using PPs as an abstraction for diplomatic offers and whatnot sounds great.
Perhaps if there is another version of this game the map will be larger and allow for a slightly more nuanced rendition of the First World War. I'd love to have an active Persian gulf front for example. Still, as it is this is a very nice game.
Anyway, I only point this out to suggest these were theoretical possibilities. I wholeheartedly agree that using PPs as an abstraction for diplomatic offers and whatnot sounds great.
Perhaps if there is another version of this game the map will be larger and allow for a slightly more nuanced rendition of the First World War. I'd love to have an active Persian gulf front for example. Still, as it is this is a very nice game.
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AEWHistory
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14
The board game Fatal Alliances (ADG...basically World in Flames WWI) has an awesome diplomacy feature. It should be looked at as an outline for this game's diplomacy. I highly recommend those interested in a diplomacy feature look into it.
I'll check it out. It has been YEARS since I played WiF but I used to love it. I'd love to see what a similar game for WWI would be like.
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AEWHistory
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Okay, so I've played this out in SP about 7-8 times since I posted this and I have some concerning news: not ONCE did Bukgaria join the CP.* Every single time the Bulgarian countdown counter turned red and stopped right where it was. Most of the time is said 20+, but sometimes 15+ and even 10+ once. This is silly. What concerns me more is that I found this happening in a MP game today as well. Not surprising give that it happens in SP, but even more of a problem since so many players place an ahistorical abundance of resources against the OE and without Bulgaria the Turks are toast. (Eg- without help from its allies there is no way for the OE to defend Sinai, Armenia and deal with any/all of landings in Mesopotamia/Black sea/Med.). Given the amount of time invested in mp games, this is a game breaker for me. It's tough enough that, for whatever reason, I cannot play the entente due to some software glitch (already tried and it doesn't work) but not being able to play out a proper CP game pretty much ends this game for me. is there a workaround? Any thoughts? Will there be another patch?
*- I should specify that I specifically made sure not to upgrade arty to have gas, the CP never declared war on a neutral nation, and I even experimented with both sinking and avoiding sinking enemy battle fleets to see if the dramatic NM swings were screwing up the game. I doubt I tested everything and may have overlooked something, but at this point I have no idea what it would be. More importantly, the Bulgarian entry into the war shouldn't be do delicate; they desperately wanted revenge on the Serbs as well as their other Balkan neighbors. Moreover, in the REAL war the Austrians were getting their collective asses handed to them by the Serbs (a bit of an overstatement, but the Austrians had been manhandled pretty good). In game terms this effectively means that Bulgaria chose to enter the war in a far less auspicious situation IRL than the conditions the game seems to be asking for.....
*- I should specify that I specifically made sure not to upgrade arty to have gas, the CP never declared war on a neutral nation, and I even experimented with both sinking and avoiding sinking enemy battle fleets to see if the dramatic NM swings were screwing up the game. I doubt I tested everything and may have overlooked something, but at this point I have no idea what it would be. More importantly, the Bulgarian entry into the war shouldn't be do delicate; they desperately wanted revenge on the Serbs as well as their other Balkan neighbors. Moreover, in the REAL war the Austrians were getting their collective asses handed to them by the Serbs (a bit of an overstatement, but the Austrians had been manhandled pretty good). In game terms this effectively means that Bulgaria chose to enter the war in a far less auspicious situation IRL than the conditions the game seems to be asking for.....
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Hellfirejet
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
I'm looking into all the scripts regarding Bulgaria activation, I will alter them where needed to ensure Bulgaria joins the war every time, within a month or 2 of when she joined in history, I mean its hard enough for the Central Powers, without the handicap off Bulgaria staying out the conflict.
Make it so!
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Hellfirejet
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Greece in turmoil.
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Make it so!
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Hellfirejet
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Sometimes you just have to be ruthless with the game scripts, I have finally put paid to the long standing problem of will Bulgaria join the war or won't she, well the answer is she will do from now on, no messing about, I have taken a scalpel to OttomanBulgariaAlliance event script, in fact I have removed this offending script completely, because to put it mildly it over complicated something that should be straight forward and simple, Bulgaria war activation, is now in line with all the other Major Countries in the game, in that they do in fact join the war.[:)]
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Make it so!
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Hi Kirk!
Completely agree with you![:)] A day or 2 ago took the below SS, which put me into dithers as to why Bulgaria went "RED" because CP declared war on Italy's "0" turn. There seemed to be so many in game excuses for Bulgaria "NOT" to go on the march to war seemed ridiculous.
good looking out, thanks, Bob
Completely agree with you![:)] A day or 2 ago took the below SS, which put me into dithers as to why Bulgaria went "RED" because CP declared war on Italy's "0" turn. There seemed to be so many in game excuses for Bulgaria "NOT" to go on the march to war seemed ridiculous.
good looking out, thanks, Bob
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and one flew over the Cuckoos nest
RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
Kirk,
Here is another MP match, where Entente used poison gas first (a couple of turns ago), then Italy DOW on CP, guess what?: Bulgaria goes "RED"![&:] I intentionally did not DOW on Italy the previous turn just to not give Bulgaria an excuse not to go continue the "March to War", that proved fruitless.[:(] This I hope is part of your Bulgaria fix.
All the best, Bob
Here is another MP match, where Entente used poison gas first (a couple of turns ago), then Italy DOW on CP, guess what?: Bulgaria goes "RED"![&:] I intentionally did not DOW on Italy the previous turn just to not give Bulgaria an excuse not to go continue the "March to War", that proved fruitless.[:(] This I hope is part of your Bulgaria fix.
All the best, Bob
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and one flew over the Cuckoos nest
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Hellfirejet
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RE: What's the deal with Bulgaria?
The use of Gas for the first time, does not stop Bulgaria's march to war anymore, this is fixed. I'm play testing giving Bulgaria an activation boost when Turkey declares war, because Turkey and Bulgaria have a defence pact.
Make it so!