Ever think about what wargames depict?

OberJager · Post by **OberJager** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:09 pm

Just wondering, I got the BoB DVD set for Christmas. So far I have watched the first 3 episodes. IMHO they are very well done.
However, I now find when i'm playing one of my H2H PBEM games, instead of cheering when my troops wipe out a unit I think back to the images in BoB of actual men (from both sides) being brutally cut to pieces. I think I had the same problem after watching SPR.
Anyone else? I know its kinda of pathetic feeling bad about killing some pixels but these are historical games and I think its is wise to reflect on what they depict everyonce and a while.
Now, Back to the game!!

CCB · Post by **CCB** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:24 pm

When I was nine years old or so and started building models, I swore that I would NEVER build a Japanese or German WW2 military model. Then I turned twelve and the Panthers, Tigers and Zeroes started rolling off the 'production line'

.

Then I started playing wargames, almost exclusively as the Germans, because they had all the 'cool' weapons.

Then, like you are now, I started thinking about what models and wargames represent, and so I stopped playing/building for a while.

Then I discovered naked women on the Internet......

Nah, seriously - have you SEEN some of these women? OMG!

OK, OK back to the topic at hand. Yeah, I like playing wargames and building models, and yes there is always that little voice in the back of my head too...

OberJager · Post by **OberJager** » Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:13 am

I usually play as the Germans as well, for the same reason, and, its more fun to play as the side that lost, more of the What if.. factor.
In the episode of BoB I just watched there is a scene where an American 30 cal crew mows down what looks like a whole platoon of FJ's who were falling back, it was nasty!
(although so were the scenes where easy co. was assaulting the town)

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:36 am

Been discussed before, quite well actually.

But I would not fret much over it.

As long as you can shed some tears for the dead that preserve our freedom on those days we remember them, you are doing your part to appreciate the matter correctly.

Unless of course you avoid Harry Potter and Dungeons and Dragons for fear of participating in satanic rituals, and worry that Grand Theft Auto will inspire you to kill people while driving in your car.

Hey CCB hmmm glad you mentioned those ladies, cool I never knew the interent could be so much fun. How long have they had that neat stuff on the net?

OberJager · Post by **OberJager** » Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:46 am

I'm not worried about losing sleep, and I'm not considering surrendering all of my PBEM games, although I wish my MGs in H2H were that effective...

brent_2 · Post by **brent_2** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 11:07 pm

I got BoB for Christmas too - and have only watched the first 3 also so far.

This set and Black Hawk Down are the only dvds I own so far (don't even have a player yet)... talk about graphic depictions of war...

My interest in the games comes from the interest in the history of conflict, and a respect for what was done and accomplished, not the other way around. These sprites and pixels are sufficently abstract that I don't directly associate them with the real soldiers I know.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:04 am

I know this may sound stupid but when playing wargames i actually try to lessen the losses my forces incur,why,because i consider them my "troops" and i feel a little bad every time i lose some,especially when it was my decsion that brought them doom.I don't know maybe its just the way i'm conditioned.

brent_2 · Post by **brent_2** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:19 am

nothing wierd or stupid about it at all....

I would be more concerned about a lack of empathy spilling over into the real world than the other way around.

Having said that I do NOT feel that playing video games leads one to violence in the real world, it is a lack of many other things.

I better be careful - this will turn into an AoW thread pretty quick

Frank W. · Post by **Frank W.** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:01 am

this leads to another question: why are we so interested in war?

brent_2 · Post by **brent_2** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:19 am

Originally posted by Frank W.
this leads to another question: why are we so interested in war?

Is it a fascination with conflict....and the tools mankind uses in this and no other situation...?
A chance to be someone famous...(and mayber let the ego prove you can do better??!!)
a chance to paticipate in historic events without your life being on the line...

ahh - I just reread and noticed you said 'war' not just wargaming

some of the same answers though

Bernard · Post by **Bernard** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:33 am

Originally posted by Frank W.
this leads to another question: why are we so interested in war?

Dunno.
always have been.

My son has the same interest, plays a lot with my own old Airfix soldiers.

My daughter doesn't care.

I guess it's a boy thing, having something to do with ego, and a prolongation of our ... in the weapon we have, may it be a sword or a gun.

As long as we teach our boys that wars are insane, why keep the fuun ouot of it ?
We do other insae things

linke : drink the most, pee the farthest, drive like crazies.
As i said, all in the manhood.
Rare to see a girl driving like a maniac.

Frank W. · Post by **Frank W.** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:35 am

bernard + brent:

i think you are right...

another idea came to my mind:

bernard: what about a meeting
or something with some EURO
forum members? of course
together with some SPWAW H to H
playing ??

perhaps in brussel or so?
we could visit the museum you
mentioned,too. perhaps spring or
early summer??

any opinions from other EUROS??

CCB · Post by **CCB** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:44 am

Originally posted by Frank W.
this leads to another question: why are we so interested in war?

Are we not instinctly 'hunters'?

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:30 am

Originally posted by Bernard
Rare to see a girl driving like a maniac.

You obviously have never tried to drive on the same roads with American chicks who seem to have the idea that the rear-view-mirror was invented for the purpose of doing your makeup.

brent_2 · Post by **brent_2** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:28 am

Originally posted by Bernard
Rare to see a girl driving like a maniac.

heheh, I was about to say I have seen my fair share.

I suspect it has something more to do with age than gender.

Mike Scholl · Post by **Mike Scholl** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:42 pm

If your interest is in History, perhaps the major reason to
be interested in War is that it shows a society under it's
ultimate stress. You can find out more about the strengths
and weaknesses of nations when you examine their
reactions to stressful situations. It's quite revealing.

On the surface, Nazi Germany looked like a world-beater to
most folks by 1940. But if you look closely at it's societal
reactions the clues to it's downfall are already in place.
The most revealing is the Government's fear of it's own
people. They refused to sanction full war industrial
mobilization for fear that lack of consumer goods would
depress public morale. The same can be said for their
almost total failure to mobilize women into the workplace.
Or the great stupidity of the German Armed Forces in totally
failing to reccognize the need to rationalize their armaments
demands to make full use of modern industrial methods.
Britian was building more aircraft from a smaller industrial
base than Germany until 1943. The USSR built far more
tanks and guns and almost everything else from less than
half the steel and coal available to the Germans. Speer's
production miracle consisted almost exclusevly of removing
what stupidities he could from the previous practices.

You can learn a great deal from looking at a society in stress.
And War is stress. Which is why even though it's horrible in
many ways, it's also facinating.

rockymtndoc · Post by **rockymtndoc** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:14 pm

Good thread. Probably a lot of players don't really think much about what these games represent. I do, but I play them anyway.

Mankind has always had a fascination with armed conflict, since it has shaped, and continues to shape, so much of our culture and history. To me, the attraction of wargames is to relive those periods, and to see if history could be changed by different strategies.

Like some other posters, I always remember who the "players" really were, and how many of them on both sides lost their lives for what they thought was right.

I once had a very wierd thought: I wondered what it would be like if the characters in the games were really in existence during play, and thier destinies, and their deaths, were in my hands, a novice player who was just getting them all killed while he learned the game. Next morning I increased my medication, and the felling went away...!

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:24 am

Originally posted by rockymtndoc
Good thread. Probably a lot of players don't really think much about what these games represent. I do, but I play them anyway.

Mankind has always had a fascination with armed conflict, since it has shaped, and continues to shape, so much of our culture and history. To me, the attraction of wargames is to relive those periods, and to see if history could be changed by different strategies.

Like some other posters, I always remember who the "players" really were, and how many of them on both sides lost their lives for what they thought was right.

I once had a very wierd thought: I wondered what it would be like if the characters in the games were really in existence during play, and thier destinies, and their deaths, were in my hands, a novice player who was just getting them all killed while he learned the game. Next morning I increased my medication, and the felling went away...!

You know what Doc,i've thought the same thing from time to time,what if their little electronic world is real to them.You got anymore of that medication?

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:50 am

Originally posted by rockymtndoc

snippertjie

I once had a very wierd thought: I wondered what it would be like if the characters in the games were really in existence during play, and thier destinies, and their deaths, were in my hands, a novice player who was just getting them all killed while he learned the game. Next morning I increased my medication, and the felling went away...!

I believe that medication comes in a bottle. They make it in places like Scotland, Ireland, and Kentucky.

And what if it is? Is that why I stood at attention and saluted the computer after a Biafran sapper unit blew itself, a Nigerian T-55, and the bridge they all were on to Hell in the SP2 Scenario, "The Horrors of Port Harcourt?" By their sacrifice, they enabled all the units behind them to retreat and survive. Or why I had tears in my eyes when I sent a depleted French Division back into battle in the Medola scenario in AOR. And why I always try to minimise casualties.

troopie

Ever think about what wargames depict?

Ever think about what wargames depict?

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