1.08 Changes and Thoughts

[lowtech]

Hello all,

Got this baby out after a long hiatus and am wondering what the Grognards feel are the biggest effects of the update. At least first impressions anyway

For me the big element is how well the logistics are simulated and it appears, repeat appears, that the 1.08 made a significant change, and what looks like and improvement in this respect.

I'm using Jison's map mod (thanks)

regards

[charlie0311]

Question is way to big to approach in the forums, find the patchnotes, start there.

[lowtech]

Oh I agree. I read (glanced over) the patch notes. I was looking more for players' general impressions

[gingerbread]

Soviet national morale. Nothing comes even close in effect compared to this change.

[lowtech]

Gingerbread,

Could you expand please.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: lowtech

Gingerbread,

Could you expand please.

it completely changes 1942. Soviet NM goes to 40 in April and stays there to October (compared to 45 before 1.08). That means by June most of your rifle divisions will be in the 39-42 range and you will really struggle to hold onto any ground. It makes generating a decent cadre of Gds from the 1941-2 winter battles utterly essential as they will hold their morale much better.

[lowtech]

Thanks, I'm trying to quote your comments concerning 1.08 but the software won't let me until 10 days from now. It's what you wrote concerning Logistics, very good btw.

[chaos45]

Im still doing a run through with the new patch vs the AI.....

However and I know im playing the AI.....it seems alittle to easy to push the Soviets around at the start of 1942. Knowing a great deal about the campaign, and from looking at all the reports it seems things so far in my game have went very historical.

However, Start of summer 1942- Encircle and destroy almost 300k Soviet troops right off, and with really secondary effort push a 4 hex wide zone 2 hexes closer to be next to Moscow, and still have 10 Divisions finishing off leningrad.

diverted an entire Panzer corps, ton of Romanians and 6 infantry divisions to drive into the Crimea and finish off that....alot more than historical ran into a ton of good Soviet units there that most likely should be at Moscow.

Again though its May 1942 and Im on the offensive virtually across the whole front as the Soviets even with 6+ million troops cant stop me just launch local counterattacks here and there. I took some heavy losses and fought it out all winter long with the Soviets and the German army was able to basically replace everything by summer...I have like 2 armies on static duty in the North I reduced to 80% ToE but the entire rest of the German army is still set to 100% and maintaining in general 90%+

An this is with AI settings all being +10 so Im facing better morale Soviets than the standard. Seems maybe the changes are abit to much in favor of the Germans, as Im not an ace player by any stretch and playing pretty historically and its turning into a cake walk. I cant see the Soviets truly holding much of anything including Moscow through the summer of 1942....the only issues Im having is my Romanian army isnt really rebuilding due to a lack of armaments.

I mean I played just like the Germans historically pushed on until the snow/blizzards hit without digging in along most of the front and yes it was a brutal winter but manpower was replaced easily and didnt really lose much ground even against tons and tons of Soviet attacks. The only places the soviets seemd to do damage at all was Tula, my last push before winter so was very exposed, kharkov, and Rostov area...and even then I slowly gave ground and controlled the bleeding all winter till the GErmans got enough CV back to fight on equal terms and stop and even slowly drive the Soviets back while it was still snow/blizzard. This is on mild winter settings which seems to be the standard play now for human vs human play.

I guess my issue with this is...historically speaking I should be low on manpower somewhere.....so I cant afford to push almost the entire front in 1942...the Soviets are just so weak they cant inflict near enough damage to slow the Germans and thats with settings at +10.....the Computer is very aggressive and counterattacks successfully at every opportunity but a couple thousand losses a turn isnt going to cripple/stop the German advance.

So even after a brutal winter...Axis OOB is sitting at almost 4 million german with axis-allied adding another 1.5million vs only 6.2million Soviets and with Soviet CV being so low they have no chance in a 1:1 fight even dug-in.

Will keep playing as I get time and push foward through 1942, but I think Im going for Moscow in 1942 instead of stalingrad as my troops are at the gates right now and for the first good weather in 1942 I completely obliterated the entire Soviet front that was defending Tula and ripped open a massive hole just south of Moscow...and it was very heavily contested by the AI.....but against 4 full strength panzer corps backed by 2 full strength infantry armies is really nothing any amount of Soviets can do to stop it.....which I think seems to be an issue from my reading of history....first off the German army at very close to 100% strength and secondly the completely lack of ability in the Soviets even dug in with 3 division stacks to stop an advance of that strength....ya the frontline and reserves may wear down the initial infantry assaults and maybe even the first panzer corps but then since the follow on panzer corps eat no movement reduction they just move through the hole and keep building on the breakthrough to the point the Soviets by the time they get a turn can do nothing.

[lowtech]

Chaos45,

I am at turn 10 against the AI and it's basically put the entire force up around Leningrad, so were I to continue this game, I'd be able to take most of the approaches to Moscow and get, heaven knows how far in the Ukraine by Oct-Nov 41. Programming consistently good AI is notoriously difficult (and expensive), the usual solution is to boost the AI advantage some amount. I think PvP is where this engine works.

[chaos45]

IDK i dont feel the AI did that bad a job in my game really....its newest decision to put tank corps and like 5 guards divisions to stop me in the crimea is odd when im next to moscow.

Now i didnt play super cheesy either, no HQ build-ups and in general followed a very historical approach to the advance. I found surrounding leningrad took abit of time but it wasnt that hard just bought the computer some time while I still had tanks committed to finishing the encirclement instead of sending them to moscow. By winter I was 2 hexes from moscow and managed to hold that line all winter, just in the south did I have to give ground. Which is where I had no real good terrain to make a stand in...in the north and center I lost basically no ground all winter and wasnt even fully dug-in to lvl 1 at the start in many spots. I found about anywhere the Germans got lvl 1 entrenched the Soviets couldnt push without massive effort which in turn bought time since your just trying to run down the first month of winter basically.

Also I am playing with a computer advantage on....IDK mayhaps I'll take a try at playing the axis against someone in the near future...wanted to practice with the Soviets though as with the new changes, I really feel the Soviets are probably the underdogs now. As from what Im seeing doesnt really matter what the Soviets do the Axis can just out CV them and push through...and this is with the AI units getting a +10 morale/logistics/entrenchment so should be even easier work for the axis vs a human player without the +10.

[lowtech]

Looking at the command points. It seems as though the Axis Army Groups are seriously "overloaded" CPs at 15 to 20% over even 30%; while the Soviet HQs are not; regardless of level. I checked the four campaign scenarios to compare. The Axis Armies and Corps appear to be (mostly) within the CP limits.

I understand from the forums and the manual, that CP overload means that the higher HQ may not be able to give support, and also ? less movement for the subordinate HQs.

Is this an intentional "balancing" effect? Does this matter? (In the context of the game [:)] )

[loki100]

I'd say not.

I think for the Germans the key command levels are corps and armies, they have enough good commanders to populate those levels that you will rarely need the AG level to ensure you pass a given check.

With the Soviets its the reverse. By late 1942, its the Front that is the key level. You'll still have plenty of numpties at army level and that will only improve very slowly as a few of them gain extra stats. But by then, every Front should be well led and that is your primary safety net (also Stavka is more important than OKH due to the smaller command chain)

edit - should stress the point here is that overloading reduces the effective value of a commander at a level

[lowtech]

Thanks,

I think I'm gonna start a Loki100 Fanboi club. I just responded to your suggestions concerning house rules over in that folder. Or should I repost here?

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: loki100

I'd say not.

I think for the Germans the key command levels are corps and armies, they have enough good commanders to populate those levels that you will rarely need the AG level to ensure you pass a given check.

With the Soviets its the reverse. By late 1942, its the Front that is the key level. You'll still have plenty of numpties at army level and that will only improve very slowly as a few of them gain extra stats. But by then, every Front should be well led and that is your primary safety net (also Stavka is more important than OKH due to the smaller command chain)

edit - should stress the point here is that overloading reduces the effective value of a commander at a level

The one area over looked is morale at the German higher commands, my big secret.

Just high morale commanders over time can be big. OKH and the AG's. A few extra % for each roll adds up quickly + If you have a good Corp Morale leader look out.

[lowtech]

That makes sense but how do you handle the CP overload? I don't have the numbers but AGS is like well over 25% in excess what with the two Romanian Armies etc.

Transferring the Rear Area units to OKW doesn't really make that much of a difference. Transferring the Romanians to the Romanian High Command? that's 48 CPs per Army though.

[dontra85]

FBD5 appears to missing. Has anyone played long enough to see how this effects rail repair and ultimately axis supply

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: dontra85

FBD5 appears to missing. Has anyone played long enough to see how this effects rail repair and ultimately axis supply

It doesn't you just have to work around it.

[lowtech]

I think it makes it much more realistic in the South. The whole Axis rail repair effort, especially bridge repair was radically screwed up.

[zulu354]

I have there a small question. After updating to 1.08 I recognized a new statistic value in the Lost Unit Screens. I didn't mention it before. It's right under the lost count of AFV. In my German localization it's called SF & PSW. So, what units count in this point?

Regards
zulu

[Denniss]

Self-propelled vehicles (SP Flak/Artillery etc) and armored cars, morvael should have an extensive list.