3rd Reich

[bo]

My dear posters while we await fixes and such for MWIF I thought maybe some of you might enjoy playing 3rd Reich computer version. A few might already have played the game and maybe some have never seen 3rd Reich. The picture I am showing you is where you can download it from with no charge. If you have windows 7 then you need to "download easy setup[14.9 MB]".

If you do not want to pay any charges you have to use their download speed that is free. My download speed was 5.4kb a second from their server, it takes awhile to download. My verizon download speed is 3.5 mega bytes a second big difference HuH!

Version 1.38 is already installed in the easy setup[14.9MB]

Bo

[bo]

This is the initial setup with the invasion of Poland, either side can be played by the computer or you can play both sides with no AI. I have not played it for years and either I am very rusty [impossible] or the AI is very good as I am getting my rear end smashed to bits.

The only objection I have to the game is the AI computer speed during it's move, It is lighting fast, now that is good and bad, good if you want to get to your move quickly, but not so good because you might have missed something due to the speed of the AI move especially in the naval moves.

The units you see below were taken from my computer at the start of the game.

German units 3-3 are infantry units attack power of 3 and hex moves of up to and including 3. German armored units are attack power of 4 and movement of 6. The biggest part of the game at least for me if I am the Germans is the speed of the Panzer's and their ability to envelope enemy units and cut off their supply which if they can not be resupplied, they are destroyed.

German air units have an attack power of 5 and a range of 4. Polish units a light tan. To the right of the screen are Russian units.

It is a beer and pretzel game, my favorite word for fast games with just a few rules. The manual is adequate to say the least, all you need to know to play the game. To play it well Hmmm!

There might be a way of slowing down the computer move but I am not to good at setting that up.

If you decide to download it I hope you will enjoy it as a diversion.

Bo

[bo]

To the purists of 3rd Reich you can also use this color which is the original map.

Bo

[bo]

This the large version of the map. there is only two sizes and I am showing both but it still works well.

Bo

[Centuur]

I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

I thought is was easy when I first played it many years ago but since then it seems the 1.38 patch has helped the game somewhat. One thing the AI computer does well is to calculate the attack odds to perfection, of course the die roll can change all plans of mice and men [:(] Just thought some players might be interested in seeing an old game played on their computers.

Lets face it, what it's not is MWIF that is for sure, I called it what it is a beer and pretzel game but some players might find it has a lot of salt on the pretzel part [;)] But after playing some other Matrix's games [carriers at war etc] this game shines compared to them.

Bo

[alexvand]

I first picked up a copy of this game in the board game version at a garage sale for $1.

I liked it so much that I had to buy a copy of the 3rd edition game.

But when I went off to college and mentioned to someone there that I played 3rd Reich, they introduced me to WiF. There was no competition.

I even tried a couple of games of Advanced 3rd Reich with the Rising Sun expansion, but it just doesn't hold a candle to WiF.

(My most annoying memory is putting one single unit out of place in my defense of Russia which led to a massive blitz attack that wiped Russia out of the game in 1941. Not a fun way to lose.)

[Twisted1]

Advance 3rd Reich was really, really bad.

The new one, John Prado's Third Reich is really really good for a board game. Does it compare to WiF? Not really. I love both. JP's 3rd Reich can be played in a week end.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2904 ... hird-reich


Can this version of computer 3rd Reich be played using Teamveiwer? Now that would be really cool with 5 players....

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I first played this game on a Commodore 128. That's how old it is. At that time the AI was really easy to crack...

Unlikely. The C 128 went out of production in 1989. The computer version of 3rd Reich was released in 1996. Even if you found a way to install an upgraded version of MS-DOS onto an old C 128 I doubt it would have either the processing power or the RAM needed to run it.

The biggest drawback to the 3rd Reich computer game is that it was released several years after Advanced Third Reich (1992), the greatly improved version of the board game. An entire generation of wargamers (including me) grew up on A3R and had little or no interest in playing a computer game version of a board game that was essentially obsolete.

[juntoalmar]

I love 3R, and it's been my favorite wargame until I discovered MWiF.

But, what is a "beer and pretzels" game? One with easier rule set? Will chess be such a game? Some people spend days just to move one piece. I think simplicity of rules doesn't make less fun, or deep to play, not necessarily, IMHO.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Twisted1

Advance 3rd Reich was really, really bad.

The new one, John Prado's Third Reich is really really good for a board game. Does it compare to WiF? Not really. I love both. JP's 3rd Reich can be played in a week end.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2904 ... hird-reich


Can this version of computer 3rd Reich be played using Teamveiwer? Now that would be really cool with 5 players....

Anything can be played by multiple players using Teamviewer.

[CrusssDaddy]

Bo: Can you go into a little detail how production works in this game?

[belechannas]

I started playing the original board game in 1975, a year after it came out.

The production and economic system is based on "BRPs" ("Basic Resource Points"). Each major power starts with a base BRP amount, which they receive annually. A percentage (country-dependent) of any saved BRPs at the end of a year are permanently added onto the base. Minor countries you conquer also add to your BRP total each year.

Each type of unit costs a certain number of BRPs per factor:

Infantry: 1
Armor: 2
Air/Naval: 3

Major power units can be rebuilt in their home country, even on the same turn they are eliminated. Each major power also has a limited number of Strategic Redeployments that can be used to move units (including new builds) at the end of the turn.

Declaring war and taking offensives (essentially like an unlimited combined option in WiF) also cost BRPs; the alternative was a cost-free low-intensity "attrition" combat or just passing. The original game also had a rudimentary strategic warfare (submarines and strategic bombing) system that affected BRP totals.

And - one of the things that made the game very wild - the initiative each turn was determined by each side's total number of BRPs. Typically the Allies would take the initiative (getting a double turn) in 1942 or early 1943, but if they couldn't maintain their BRP lead, it could lead to a devastating Axis double turn in response.

For the time, it was quite sophisticated. The original game went through 4 editions, refining some of the broad-brush treatment. Then Advanced Third Reich did a more serious redesign and elaboration of many systems, although the basic game remained recognizable. The game is still published by GMT as "A World at War", including the Pacific theater as well. A new version, and the pre-war equivalent of "Days of Decision" (called "The Gathering Storm") have made it over the P500 hurdle and will presumably appear someday in the not-too-distant future.

Matrix Games also did a pretty forgettable retro treatment (including a compatible PTO game of its own design).

[Jagdtiger14]

I used to be a big A3R player with a face to face group in the mid/late 90's...even played at Avaloncon in Baltimore (Hunt Valley). Loved the game. I think its final incarnation is something called "A World at War" and costs about $100. I never got into it...was intercepted by WiF[:)]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Bo: Can you go into a little detail how production works in this game?

Hi cruss, belechannas explained it better than I could have in his post. To any naysayers I say download it, it has the patch 1.38 in it and it plays fairly well IMO. Just a diversion as I do not see any other game Matrix is selling right now as being something I might enjoy.

Bo

[bo]

I love 3R, and it's been my favorite wargame until I discovered MWiF.

Are you referring to the board game or the computer game that I show on the posts?

To me beer and pretzel games are games that can be played to conclusion in a few nights and are not very complicated rules wise. These are games for people like me, it wasn't until MWIF came along in the last few years that I actually got interested in more deeper military games. I believe that others and myself like to get right into a game without spending hours upon hours reading rules and then rereading them.

MWIF with all of it's troubles takes a lot of the rule reading away through the ability of the computer to do the rules for you. You still need to know the basic concept of the game and the way it is played though.

Bo

[CrusssDaddy]

Thanks bel and bo. As an experienced player, how long does a game typically take playing one side against the computer?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Thanks bel and bo. As an experienced player, how long does a game typically take playing one side against the computer?

cruss I just started to play it for the first time in years, my sons had the board game and I played them once in a while but they got into ASL and that was the end of me playing them.

The game involves some strategy but more in calculating the odds for attacks, if the computer AI has any faults, calculating odds is not one of them as you might guess. It is played in 3 month turns Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter, it has several starting points as this picture shows.

I have not played a full game yet but a turn could take as little as a few minutes to maybe 20 minutes most of that by the human player. I would estimate that the computer can do it's move from 30 seconds and a more complicated move maybe 1 to 2 minutes. It is actually too fast and I am trying to find a way to slow the computers decisions down a shade. Hope this helps.

Bo

[belechannas]

The thing about calculating odds is: combat is very bloody, and the CRT favors the attacker.

The attacker wins 100% of the time at odds of 3-1 or better (with a varying amount of losses), and even at 2:1 odds the attacker will win 31 times out of 32.

Defending units are at least doubled (on clear terrain) or tripled (on mountain/swamp, across rivers), but the game still has a chess-like feel due to the attacker's ability to plan and control the action during his turn.

[belechannas]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I used to be a big A3R player with a face to face group in the mid/late 90's...even played at Avaloncon in Baltimore (Hunt Valley). Loved the game.]

Heh. I ran the A3R mailing list around that time, and also played at a few Avaloncons.